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Islander
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PostPosted: 21:51 - 26 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
I don't get why this is such an important issue for those replying in this thread. I haven't seen any women reply here yet. I suspect here it is merely about political tribalism, since my guess is no one here is affected by any of it. Strikes as me as a bit dumb to get worked up over something you're not affected by.


Nope not political tribalism. It's about freedom of choice and the religious nutters that want to impose their distorted views on women.

By the way, my father got worked up about something that didn't really affect him and joined up before WW2. Principles matter.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:24 - 26 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
I don't get why this is such an important issue for those replying in this thread. I haven't seen any women reply here yet. I suspect here it is merely about political tribalism, since my guess is no one here is affected by any of it. Strikes as me as a bit dumb to get worked up over something you're not affected by.


Nope not political tribalism. It's about freedom of choice and the religious nutters that want to impose their distorted views on women.


It's the US we're talking about, not here. What are you worried about? All kinds of countries have all kinds of laws we don't like, but I don't hear you getting worked up about those. Why this issue in the US?

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By the way, my father got worked up about something that didn't really affect him and joined up before WW2. Principles matter.


Confused I hardly think this issue will start a world war, do you?
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 22:40 - 26 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
mentalboy wrote:
I wonder what will happen when the right wing circle jerkers realise that their 'pro-life' stance has fucked up their chances of breeding using IVF in states with legislation like Texas. Laughing


Huh? You'll have to explain one to me Smile Anyway, save some money and adopt instead Wink


Briefly put, when a woman is inseminated by IVF, in order to increase chances of a successful procedure the quack will fertilise a bunch of eggs in the lab and then implant that which is deemed to be most viable.
Unfortunately, in States like Texas that recognise the right to life from the moment of conception that now leaves the lab with fertilised eggs that can't be flushed down the bog...

While I thoroughly agree with the adoption before IVF route, many of the nice middle class folks who go through IVF aren't that keen on adopting crack/spacked up babies.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 26 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
I don't get why this is such an important issue for those replying in this thread. I haven't seen any women reply here yet. I suspect here it is merely about political tribalism, since my guess is no one here is affected by any of it. Strikes as me as a bit dumb to get worked up over something you're not affected by.


Nope not political tribalism. It's about freedom of choice and the religious nutters that want to impose their distorted views on women.

By the way, my father got worked up about something that didn't really affect him and joined up before WW2. Principles matter.


Seems odd that CS would be commenting in this thread, using his own reckoning. Thinking
It's not just women who will be affected, this is just the start of a very slippery slope. One of the Supreme Court judges who has been pushing for years to kill Roe v. Wade has already said that the same reasoning applied in overturning it can be used to ban the right to contraception, criminalise buggery and cancel the right to same sex marriage.
What hasn't been said, which I'm sure people will jump on soon, is that the very same reasoning can be applied to anything that wasn't mentioned in the Constitution - privacy, car licensing, climate issues, the right to own your own Cruise missile set up to mention but a few.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:03 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's worse than anyone could have predicted! Abortion now banned across the USA...

https://i.imgur.com/ytUvzXw.jpg
Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/latest-point-in-pregnancy-you-can-get-abortion-in-50-states-2019-5?r=US&IR=T

Something must be done!
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 00:05 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

@mentalboy
I'm not commenting on the subject. None of you know my views on it, if I have any at all, nor does it matter to you what I think. I'm just curious as to what's driving people here on BCF to get worked up about this to the point where they'll call each other names. It seems to happen with more and more subjects these days.

I don't buy the "slippery slope" argument either. You could make that argument for any subject, any law, and connect it to anything else at all. People need to be a bit more careful about what hills they choose to die on. Fwiw, my advice would be to think closer to home if you generally want a happier life.

But you're right. This subject isn't for me, I know that much. Adios my little argumentative friends Smile
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:31 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
You do realise that the majority of abortions take place when the foetus isn't even a foetus don't you? Something like 90% occur in the first 13 weeks when you'd be hard put to recognise it as human and where it doesn't have consciousness and that the majority of that 90% occur even earlier.

It's a specious argument. Late term abortions are rare and usually performed for medical reasons.

Or you could stick with the pro-life rhetoric and be ill informed.


This is very cookie cutter stuff, does your works monitor your posts? Blink twice if you're in danger.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 02:10 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
I'm just curious as to what's driving people here on BCF to get worked up about this to the point where they'll call each other names. It seems to happen with more and more subjects these days.

Thinking

In general we seem to be returning to an age of zealotry and tribalism. For example with the abortion debate in the US you have leftist and Christian zealots screaming at each other, where both sides deal in absolutes, which makes compromise extremely difficult.

This attitude has filtered into the general population, where people get instantly 'triggered' like someone has attacked their beliefs. Combine that with everything being so politicised now and you have the perfect recipe for continual conflict.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 03:20 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
@mentalboy
I'm not commenting on the subject. None of you know my views on it, if I have any at all, nor does it matter to you what I think. I'm just curious as to what's driving people here on BCF to get worked up about this to the point where they'll call each other names. It seems to happen with more and more subjects these days.

I don't buy the "slippery slope" argument either. You could make that argument for any subject, any law, and connect it to anything else at all. People need to be a bit more careful about what hills they choose to die on. Fwiw, my advice would be to think closer to home if you generally want a happier life.

But you're right. This subject isn't for me, I know that much. Adios my little argumentative friends Smile


I must have missed the posts on this thread with name calling, wouldn't surprise me though, even if, as you correctly point out, it's got sweet FA to do with most Europeans.
Personally speaking, as I'm in South Carolina where a trigger law has kicked in and banned abortion from the heartbeat detection stage, if the electorate votes in candidates with medieval attitudes then they deserve all that they get.
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UncleFester
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PostPosted: 06:20 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

People should comment and be appalled because it's an appalling decision. It (shouldn't) doesn't matter where you live or whether it affects you or not.

The barbaric knock on effects of this are awful.

So yes, even though it doesn't and will never directly affect me, I think it's a massive backwards step in women's rights in a supposedly civilised developed country.

Shame on them.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:37 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'd think from a European standpoint and the whole EU thing it'd be easier to grasp how the states part of "USA" works. Each one has its own congress/senate, court system and governor. Obviously it's of benefit to all if some things were centralised, e.g. exterior defence, diplomacy and trade, but there are things the states can do individually like setting taxes. Are there big campaigns on the national level to kick the Amish out of Ohio, the Mormons out of Salt Lake City? No! Don't like that shit you move to another state - that freedom of movement thing the EU love so much.

Due to the peculiar personality of Americans the abortion thing is a hot button topic but imagine if tomorrow the European Courts dictated all countries must allow post-birth abortions? "It's a human right!" People might get a little upset in the UK but fuck, how do you think that shit would go in Poland or even Italy?

I'd like someone to explain to me why it is so dangerous to allow individual states to make their own laws on abortion.

And flipping it the other way with "these are your human rights and you will accept them whether you like it or not!" What do we do with all the ppl who find the concept of abortion abhorrent? "Fuck 'em, they're religious zealots" is not particularly helpful... unless that's a veiled advocation for mass executions.

How about we round up all the nutters and put them in camps? Oooh, too many I think. How about we allocate an area of land and they can all live there away from "normal" people? If we're feeling particularly kind we might allow them to trade with us...
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 10:57 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
post-birth abortions


Have you been taking the dried frog pills again?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:14 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
post-birth abortions


Have you been taking the dried frog pills again?


I did consider explaining it as an absurd analogy meant to be overly extreme but I didn't want to insult anyone's intelligence Wink Laughing
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Islander
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, you've finally lost it.

Nobody is proposing mandatory abortions. What is and should be mandatory is the right to choose and freedom from interference in that decision.

If you're against abortion then fine, don't pursue one but don't try to enforce your dubious principles on others - you have no right whatsoever to do that.

Ultimately, it's a woman's right to choose. It's her body, it's her decision and that's that.

Go on, rate this funny as well. It just shows what a puerile attitude you ultimately have to genuine issues of principle.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
post-birth abortions


Have you been taking the dried frog pills again?


Or brings us neatly back round to gun control again?
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:

Guess what.


he's married to a fuzzy wuzzy?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 13:36 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, interracial marriage which is now at risk due toi the same principle being used against that constitutionally allowed right.

He's the fuzzy-wuzzy btw....
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 14:25 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
Yep, you've finally lost it.

Nobody is proposing mandatory abortions. What is and should be mandatory is the right to choose and freedom from interference in that decision.

If you're against abortion then fine, don't pursue one but don't try to enforce your dubious principles on others - you have no right whatsoever to do that.

Ultimately, it's a woman's right to choose. It's her body, it's her decision and that's that.

Go on, rate this funny as well. It just shows what a puerile attitude you ultimately have to genuine issues of principle.


I'll ask again:

Why is moving abortion laws from central to state control so dangerous?

What do we do with the "nutters" who, for religious or other reasons, find the concept of abortion abhorrent?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 14:30 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:


What do we do with the "nutters" who, for religious or other reasons, find the concept of abortion abhorrent?


Give them the stiff ignoring that they quite clearly deserve. Don't forget the constitution specifically doesn't really mention religeon so laws shouldn't be set based on religeous opinion.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:33 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Yep, interracial marriage which is now at risk due toi the same principle being used against that constitutionally allowed right.


If you had less state interference in people's lives, they'd have more choice of how to live. Or you can have the state taking ever more control over every little detail of your life. That, you might think, is fine, until the state's decision goes against what you want, as it inevitably will at some point. Do you begin to see why I don't like inflexible political ideologies, no matter the colour of their banner, and why I don't think it's wise to pin your flag to one political party or another?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:38 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Don't forget the constitution specifically doesn't really mention religeon so laws shouldn't be set based on religeous opinion.


Eh?
"specifically"..."doesn't really" Confused
How many times is "God" mentioned in the Constitution? I was under the impression that it most certainly was built upon such ideas.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 14:51 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

A deity isn't mentioned at all in the constitution. The first amendment introduced freedom of religion and includes freedom to not be subject of any religion if you don't want to.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 15:07 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

The American constitution doesn't directly mention a God but the same can't be said about the constitutions of various individual states.

As the motto of America is "In God We Trust", it's overwhelmingly clear that it was built upon such ideas.
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rpsmith79
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PostPosted: 15:11 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:

As the motto of America is "In God We Trust", it's overwhelmingly clear that it was built upon such ideas.


Which God exactly?
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 15:13 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

So one side wants not to kill the unborn, but the mother dieing is fine, then lets you kill anyone who tries to kill you.

The other wants to kill the unborn and wont let the mother protect herself from being killed.

Every sperm is sacred.
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