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America - The land of the --------?

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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:20 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed.

But there's where wade v roe facilitated it. It put limits on what the rights on the individual where the right of the potential child were.

Up to the point where its just a collection of cells it said automity. For the nest 3 months only where the potential child is disabled or non-viable or the mother is at risk or.when rape is involved and after that only where either was at risk of dying.

If any of my children had been disabled they would have been aborted. They would have been mourned exactly the same as the miscarriage we suffered.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:59 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was younger there was a child I potentially would have had was aborted (my choice as well but she had the decision) (many years pre Mrs bastard) it ruined the relationship because neither of us were ready for it (6 weeks in) and the.fact we were terminating a life hurt.

We took it out on each other. It hurt. It was still the right choice. Anyone who says it's an easy choice cause they fucked up is talking bollocks or has no emotions.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 27 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
What really stinks on this is Democrats are using it as both a vote harvesting opportunity AND a fundraiser. It's outrageous.


That sounds like the main reason. Keep around something wobbly looking and fragile that everyone has feelings about... so it's like someone just kicked away Nonna's walking stick. Are you gonna pick her up, Joe, or leave her there while you go on TV and whine about it?
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 00:54 - 28 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
A deity isn't mentioned at all in the constitution. The first amendment introduced freedom of religion and includes freedom to not be subject of any religion if you don't want to.


Funny you should bring up the God thing, because whenever there's been a pause in the Roe v Wade reporting today it has been to give brief mention that the same Supreme Court justices just meddled with the 'thou shalt not indoctrinate kiddies at public schools' act. Doing away with separation of church (specifically old testament types) and state law seems to be next on the hit list - seems indoctrinating the kids, in their eyes, has higher value than bashing the gays.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 01:47 - 28 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
A deity isn't mentioned at all in the constitution. The first amendment introduced freedom of religion and includes freedom to not be subject of any religion if you don't want to.


Funny you should bring up the God thing, because whenever there's been a pause in the Roe v Wade reporting today it has been to give brief mention that the same Supreme Court justices just meddled with the 'thou shalt not indoctrinate kiddies at public schools' act. Doing away with separation of church (specifically old testament types) and state law seems to be next on the hit list - seems indoctrinating the kids, in their eyes, has higher value than bashing the gays.

I've never had any doubt that was the plan, both sides want to indoctrinate children, and both sides think they're correct in doing so. Really if you're so confident in your beliefs, you wouldn't be fixated on getting them whilst they're young and impressionable. It's almost as if both sides don't think adults will want what they're selling otherwise Thinking
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 11:10 - 28 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just watched this video and it's fucking harrowing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0tQZhEisaE

Dr. Anthony Levatino (Obstetrics and gynaecology specialist) testifying at the House Committee on the Judiciary.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:27 - 28 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I got about a minute and a half into that Sick

Time and rage would be better spent educating ppl not to get into a bad situation to start with: Tinder is as poisonous to sexual health as Social Media is to mental health Neutral

Oh, but I can hear it now: "what about rape, you sick c*nt?!" Yes, that thing that represents less than 1% of abortions. Because of the edge case everything is permissible - exercising individual morality being the highest sin in modern society it seems Sad
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 12:46 - 28 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Yeah, I got about a minute and a half into that Sick

Time and rage would be better spent educating ppl not to get into a bad situation to start with: Tinder is as poisonous to sexual health as Social Media is to mental health Neutral

Oh, but I can hear it now: "what about rape, you sick c*nt?!" Yes, that thing that represents less than 1% of abortions. Because of the edge case everything is permissible - exercising individual morality being the highest sin in modern society it seems Sad


Funny how the brigade that shout loudest about 'thou shalt not kill' are the very same bunch shouting loudest for the God given right to shoot others.
It is just hypocritical political hogwash. How is it that they can scream bloody murder, push to prosecute those that assist in that murder but not charge the women who are actually instigating that murder?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:57 - 28 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone suggested on the news the other day that they should hold a referrendum on the subject in each state.

There are many pro choice people who would never vote Deomcrat for other reasons and the abortion subject isn't important enough to them to change their minds.

Although maybe the idea of one man, one vote would be a little too democratic for most Americans? It would be funny watching American politicians try to explain why holding a referrendum on the subject was a bad idea while at the same time trying not to say it's undemocratic or appear to be suggesting the people are too stupid to make that decision.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:32 - 28 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

It highlights the failure of the two party system in the US. The Democrats have claimed the pro-abortion side and therefore the Republicans get the pro-life line by default. Biden's meant to be a Catholic and yet it all goes out the window for political capital Rolling Eyes

Referendums sound good, I think I'm right in saying Americans can be quite keen on them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initiatives_and_referendums_in_the_United_States

Who mentioned the idea on the news?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 15:41 - 28 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Biden's meant to be a Catholic

https://i.imgur.com/avTKeEu.png
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Weisse Schlange
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PostPosted: 22:27 - 28 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regardless of any other aspect of this discussion, Biden is a fuckin weirdo.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 01:54 - 29 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
It highlights the failure of the two party system in the US. The Democrats have claimed the pro-abortion side and therefore the Republicans get the pro-life line by default. Biden's meant to be a Catholic and yet it all goes out the window for political capital Rolling Eyes

Referendums sound good, I think I'm right in saying Americans can be quite keen on them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initiatives_and_referendums_in_the_United_States

Who mentioned the idea on the news?


Voting in Florida was a right pain in the butt, the ballot was stuffed full of referendums.
Some people like me actually looked into each one prior to getting my ballot paper and ticking the boxes, many people didn't have the foggiest and I know that some institutions, like my old rabbi boss' synagogue, used to hand round a sheet of paper instructing the sheep on how to vote on each item.

Florida made the news with the last one I voted in. The people of the state voted with a reasonable majority to allow ex-felons to get back the right to vote and the arsehole governor Desantis refused to enact it.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 16:27 - 29 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whereas in this country there's a big push for ppl in prison to vote Rolling Eyes
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:38 - 29 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

The uk has constantly refused to implement that echr ruling.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:37 - 29 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
The uk has constantly refused to implement that echr ruling.


The UK should leave the ECHR. We have a record of being better at human rights than most European countries. What makes anyone think that our continental neighbours can do it any better? I see no evidence for that.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 29 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Churchill would be spinning in his grave.

After all, he suggested it and it was uk solicitors and civil servants that wrote the European convention on human rights.
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arry
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 29 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:

The UK should leave the ECHR.


Agree, but since it's an explicit part of the so-called Good Friday Agreement, withdrawal would mean tearing up the GFA.

Then, 'post' Brexit:

Quote:
7. The future relationship should incorporate the United Kingdom’s continued commitment to respect the framework
of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), while the Union and its Member States will remain bound
by the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, which reaffirms the rights as they result in particular
from the ECHR.


My guess is it will NEVER happen. Nobody has the appetite for that.
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arry
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 29 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Churchill would be spinning in his grave.


I think he'd have plenty of other things to get upset about with his legacy having been attacked relentlessly for a good decade or so. Think he'd get over an offhand comment on the viability of the ECHR.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 29 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Churchill would be spinning in his grave.

After all, he suggested it and it was uk solicitors and civil servants that wrote the European convention on human rights.


As if you give a damn about preserving any of Churchill's legacy Laughing

Times change, laws need to change with them. No one is suggesting that we throw away all human rights considerations, but the EU and the human rights lawyers are cynically and hypocritically using them for their own advantage. That is not what they are for. It would be different if everyone applied them evenly, and not for their own profit, whether that be political or financial.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:56 - 29 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:

The UK should leave the ECHR.


Agree, but since it's an explicit part of the so-called Good Friday Agreement, withdrawal would mean tearing up the GFA.

Then, 'post' Brexit:

Quote:
7. The future relationship should incorporate the United Kingdom’s continued commitment to respect the framework
of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), while the Union and its Member States will remain bound
by the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, which reaffirms the rights as they result in particular
from the ECHR.


My guess is it will NEVER happen. Nobody has the appetite for that.


The NI Protocol is already tearing up the GFA. I am sure we could put our own legislation in place, if needed, to shore up that agreement.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:00 - 29 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

A basic tenant of the law in the uk is that you have the right to be represented in court by people who will defend your rights.

Barristers are currently striking because they bearly make minimum wage when they are on the prosecution side.

Human rights barristers.are just doing theor job according to the law and their responsibility to represent their clients to the best of their ability.

Are you suggesting we should remove this basic tenant of the law and morality of this country?
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arry
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PostPosted: 20:07 - 29 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:

Are you suggesting we should remove this basic tenet of the law and morality of this country?


I'm suggesting you should get a dictionary before commenting further.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 20:10 - 29 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bet the human rights lawyers aren't on strike Wink
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arry
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PostPosted: 20:10 - 29 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Nobby, that was a little mean of me.

I don't think CS is suggesting that at all. He is suggesting that the ECHR is just.....well..... not very good at making difficult decisions.

It's hard to argue when the ECHR takes note of a child grooming gang ring-leader, a man who got raped and impregnated a 13 year old girl in a raaaacis hate crime, standing up in court (via an interpreter, cos totally doesn't speak English) and saying that he cannot possibly be deported because he needs to stay here to be a role model to his son.

It's comedic somehow, but it shouldn't be Shocked
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