The end of Petrol, yet again

[Keithy]

The Government stuff

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/electric-motorbikes-race-onto-uk-roads-through-transport-decarbonisation-measures

The BMF/NMC view

https://www.britishmotorcyclists.co.uk/nmc-decarbonisation-response/

I’m sure there are cleverer folks on here who understand this stuff but I find if all rather hurried, I don’t see Battery Electric Vehicles as the future, I see them as a dead end, a historical cul-de-sac if you like.

Thoughts?

[rpsmith79]

Yep, seems utterly incomprehesible that they are targeting the most fuel efficient and economic (both to buy and run) vehicles first

Anyone who uses a 125cc as a means of their only transport surely cannot even begin to think about the prospect of replacing that £1500 vehicle with a £4-5000 BEV replacement, it's utter madness
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Current Bike: Honda CG125 ES4 // Honda CB600FS Hornet // Triumph Street Triple R

[Zen Dog]

[arry]

[Zen Dog]

Been thinking about this "125s get banned first" thing. And I think the reason is that the ban isn't for us (i.e. punters). We have no control over whether motorbikes (of any description) get made. The ban is for the manufacturers, and it's speaking to them. I think the government is basically saying, "small electric/green motorcycles are the most viable as part of the future transport infrastructure, so get on with making them. Big bikes aren't going to work anyway, and are basically irrelevant in terms of overall transport infrastructure, so they can come later".

Whether that's true, and whether it will work, are separate questions, but that's the only reason I can think of for doing this.
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Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011

[arry]

[bhinso]

People need to understand that Electric Vehicles still need Energy (some of which may need to be produced by 'unclean' methods).

I attended a lecture which proved that if we were going to get this additional Electricity by clean measures, we would need to cover 25% of the land area of this country with wind turbines.

[Fat Angry Scotsman]

[kolu]

[doggone]

[Nobby the Bastard]

[Bhud]

They aren't the future - it's personal private transport that's going to be the exception rather than the norm.
Lots of people talk about how we'll need these great big warehouse lockups for e-bikes. I just don't see that happening. Are people really riding to work or college and back every day on a scooter or 125? Isn't that quite rare nowadays? I'm not sure, but going by what I've seen, it's the exception rather than the rule. Therefore, I expect e-bikes won't replace mopeds or scooters, but rather the easy accessibility of throwaway little bikes will dry up, and the people currently using them will instead learn about bus timetables. The fact there are no plans to decarbonise air travel by curbing the use of private jets tells me all I need to know about this rugpull-in-the-making, and I won't be buying into it, ever.

[arry]

[Fat Angry Scotsman]

[A100man]

[Ste]

[Freddyfruitba...]

[to v or not to v]

if you think jets are a problem, best not look into shipping.
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current bike Yamaha Thunderace.
its old and fat, but its a damned good ride. the bikes not bad either.

[Nobby the Bastard]

Shipping especially of containers is probably the most efficient way to move stuff by weight round the world.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[to v or not to v]

what about shipping of holiday goers on giant cruise ships
____________________
current bike Yamaha Thunderace.
its old and fat, but its a damned good ride. the bikes not bad either.

[Nobby the Bastard]

Very few ships like that compared to jets. Without co2 per mile per passenger for both its an irrelevant discussion and I can't be arsed to look simply because keeping people I the air is inherently more energy intensive.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[Robby]

I keep half an eye on the electric bike market to see if anything is coming along that looks like it might be worth buying.

I assume that the reason 125s are being targeted is because there are viable replacement electric bikes now, which should get significantly cheaper over the next few years. Similar the badge engineering of Chinese bike with a couple of different model of 125cc petrol engine (which are clones of old Japanese designs), there is a drop-in electric powertrain - motor, controller, batteries - for 125-equivalent power outputs. I think Bosch make the main one, alternatives and clones will exist. I think it's in the region of 10kw output and ~100 miles of range from a bike costing about £5k. So it's not great, with not too far off the overall price and performance of a new petrol 125.

Mass production isn't happening for anything bigger. There's a moderate amount of volume from Zero, and I'm expecting a moderate volume from Harley/Livewire, but nothing approaching the economies of scale needed to make a 50-100hp electric bike a reasonable price.

Also worth noting - in London at least, the vast majority of powered two wheeled traffic is scooters delivering food. They appear to make up about 90% of it. Whilst it is, and will remain, a small sliver of CO2 emissions, they could make up a fair proportion of local air quality emissions by 2030 as more cars become electric, and more boilers are replaced with heat pumps.

[Jmoan]

I turn my back for 5 seconds and come back and find their trying to steal away cheapish small motorbikes.

[Easy-X]

Mandated imposition of electric vehicles from 2030. Why?

The solutions are shite.

If the government had spent its time (i.e. our money) on research & infrastructure to bring range up, costs down and sufficient charging points a mandate would be unnecessary.

"But! But! Manufacturers wouldn't make EVs unless we force them!" Ah, a conspiracy is it? Sorry, manufacturers are in the business of making money - they echo the Market's evaluation of electric vehicles.

Same as forcing people to pay taxes: it's a shit value proposition so you have to do it at gun point.
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[arry]