Collision with Bike, 40Mph Road, filtering or?

[OpenAdvice]

All,
First off I am not a biker, I have come here for advice, and am open to criticism and dialogue. Not arrogant in any way.

Background, travelling on 40mph urban road, speed at about 30-35mph as traffic was moderate. I am with my daughter keeping good clearance to other traffic as expected.

Biker comes up and occupies right hand turn only lane adjacent me, with bollards blocking onward forward travel in this lane. I will say here I watched him come up, and am aware of traffic around me.
He then pulls into my offiside area, extremely close. Evidently this has created a collision hazard. I beeped horn to get his attention.
And boy did it, he then pulls directly infront of me, and brakes, forcing me into curb. No surprises what happens next. Remember I can’t see his brake light clearly he is that close. Dash cam does as it’s angled.

Verbal altercation takes place, he then makes sure car is damaged by smashing wing mirror and pulling off.

I’m not after an argument and only posting this on a bikers forum for pointers. And yes I am aware of filtering being legal, but travelling as normal speed in urban roads? I thought that was illegal to overtake on town roads if traffic is moving at normal and safe speed?
I was always taught to give a bike as much space as a car, but what if that bike occupies the same space as that car?
Screen shots attached, will attempt to upload whole video if I can also. Uncut.

Views? Opinions? Safe?

Edit:- Firstly many thanks for feed back, I'm not a drama queen and won't be posting the video on YouTube as part of some vendetta, but I can assure you I am pi**ed off rightly, and shook up as with daughter.

As not uploading video, have added a series of photos mere seconds apart showing timeline. I don't have rear facing cam, so understand if people think there may have been an earlier incident. Perhaps in my mitigation if you look at the seperation between myself and the car in front it doesn't change which indicates my constant speed and normal driving.

However if you look at how bloody close he comes in on his overtake, you'll see I'm effectively forced into the curb, as he realises the right hand turn only lane has a blocking bollard.
The sequential all happens in 4 seconds or so...and how close.....
Read images as 1a, 1b etc

I'll leave this here now and get on with life and try to make my daughter understand that driving is essential for where we live, she's learning now....and shook up also.
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OpenAdvice

[doggone]

You will have to upload on youtube or similar and link it here.
It wouldn't be an inherently dangerous thing to squeeze through there to make progress, so no real need to beep and it was apparently taken the wrong way which is the riders attitude problem as he could have just zoomed away it is not packed.
As for the damage no one is going to condone that unless something else had happened previously you might not even have realised.
You presumably have the registration so up to you whether you take it further

[Nobby the Bastard]

Yes, It's normal filtering and considered acceptable road behaviour.
Yes, he behaved like an arsehole and you should show it to the filth.
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[Pete.]

If he brake tested you bcause you beepd him then it's just his own stupid fault plain ad simple. You ARE within you're rights to beep someone if they are getting so close that you might have a risk of colliding but only if you think that they are not aware of how close they have got, not as an admonishment. The biker deliberately reacting by putting himself in your way and braking heavily if that's what he did is his problem though.

However, if you reacted to his reaction by perhaps not making enough effort to avoid him, maybe by letting your motor roll up very close on the brakes just to make a point, then you're just as guilty as him and in fact with the new law recently passed defining the 'chain of vulnerability' for want of a better term then you might find youself more culpable.

If your video shows that he braked hard enough and close enough so that you had no chance to avoid a collision then you're alomost certainly in the clear. If not, you're probably looking at a split liability.

One thing in your favour is that he should not have been overtaking you at a junction, which he must have been doing according to your description.
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[Pete.]

Let's say a person is passing a +10mph, a reasonable overtake rate for a urban road. That's 4.4metres/second. First and last photos are 4 seconds apart but the bike is in the same position. Even at +5mph delta-v he should be 9 metres away.

Either the car has sped up to the bike or the bike has deliberately slowed mid-overtake. My guess is the biker's a moron.
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

Need video but rider sounds like a sociopathic idiot.
____________________
"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[dn38416]

I only need to see the third photo to see the rider is a prick, OP should go to the filth if the wing mirrors were that badly damaged. Even if the rider lacked the awareness to know the car driver was that close, he had plenty of room to get clear of the whole situation. The only thing that would make me turn in would be if there were a stream of oncoming bikes coming down the middle of the road, which there aren't as per the third pic.

OP shouldn't feel remotely guilty for using his horn. This rider was out looking for drama.

Don't upload the footage if you want to take it further. I'm no expert, but I was in the process of reporting something about a month ago and noticed it had a few warnings about uploading to social media. Could be wrong.

[WD Forte]

If I found myself in a hatched area next to a car
I'd either speed up or slow down to get back into lane.

A video would help clarify things but
It appears he was showing poor skills and being an entitled twat
not to mention doing criminal damage to your car.

Google map of the road?
Did you get his number?
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bikers smell of wee

[symonh2000]

I don't want to apportion blame here either way, but even if you were in the wrong there is no excuse for the biker to vandalise your car.

Take the video to the police. It may also be that your car insurance covers you for criminal damage, as a lot of them do these days. But you will need proof that you reported the incident to the police (Crime number) and they might be interested in the video to try and reclaim their costs from the biker.
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Four strokes is two strokes too many.

[kolu]

[MarJay]

Filtering is legal and I'd give a rough rule of thumb that filtering in traffic of speeds up to 40mph is usually reasonably safe.

Could you have done better? Maybe. You might have just backed off when he overtook. That's what I would have done. All things pass, and as long as you reduce the risk of collision that's all that matters.

From a self protection standpoint there's thousands of unhinged idiots out there, people having a bad day, people who just broke up with their partners, people who can't afford their gas bill, people whose cat woke them up at 3am... whatever. It's usually best not to use the horn unless it's absolutely necessary as quite a lot of people will take it as an admonishment (as most people seem to use it this way these days). It doesn't make the motorcyclist somehow right to do what he did, but it's nevertheless true.

It's also true to say that from the interior of a car most manoeuvres by motorcyclists do look completely insane, when in reality they are well calculated and executed and in most cases perfectly safe. It's impossible for a car driver who has never ridden a motorcycle to judge the safety of a manoeuvre by a motorcycle. I'm not just saying that for hyperbole, I've seen and experienced it from both sides and have been riding bikes for 24 years and driving cars for 25.

There are bad motorcyclists out there, but they don't usually last long before they give up because 'all car drivers are idiots' or 'I got pulled out on ten times last week' or they are injured (or worse). Studies have shown that on average motorcyclists are superior car drivers to the majority of the car driving population, and that is down to observation, anticipation and hazard avoidance. It's usually quite hard-learned too.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[BRUN]

the biker should have increased speed, not tried to squeeze in so tightly, or having seen the bollard pulled back in behind you

getting beeped winds everyone up

[doggone]

It's easy to misinterpret as a rebuke, which is specifically mentioned in Highway code.
In this country horns are pretty much last resort only used when a crash is about to unavoidably happen

[Fat Angry Scotsman]

My interpretation is that the biker was overtaking you, you didn't want to be overtaken and sped up to cut him out and that's the real story in all this. You probably didn't use the horn to make him aware of his presence as he would be very aware of your presence since he was overtaking you, you probably used the horn to sound your annoyance that you were overtaken.

That doesn't excuse the biker's reaction afterwards but applying Occam's Razor, I have deduced that the most likely truth is you are both cunts.

A safe and reasonable driver who noticed and observed that they were being overtaken would slow down by taking their foot off the accelerator a little, let the biker complete his maneuvour and both road users would be on their way with no incident.
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PRESENT: 2018 BMW S1000XR SE Sport.
PAST: 2009 Kawasaki ER-6F. 2021 Zontes ZT-125U.

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

It is true that if there's one thing guaranteed to p1ss a motorcyclist off when they're overtaking is you speeding up. The Highway Code is very clear on that score too. It basically says don't be a d1ck.

Also, use of horn in that situation was very likely to be interpreted as a rebuke - rather than as a warning of your presence. He knew you were there. You didn't need to tell him. You could've created a bit of space - and not beeped. That was bound to have been regarded as an aggressive gesture.
____________________
"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[Hetzer]

The pics are no substitute for a vid but it appears as if he's deliberately cutting you up (he's not doing what he's doing to avoid the bollards) and dangerously so (to him mostly). I'm guessing you'd already done something to piss him off of which you're unaware. If it gave him a big shot of adrenalin I can understand his aggression, otherwise he's simply one of those types commonly referred to as a wanker.
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[ThunderGuts]

The video I'm sure would show things more clearly, but as per the previous post, adrenaline does strange things; if the rider felt significantly threatened/endangered by the OP (not saying the OP has necessarily done anything wrong) then the adrenaline surge can make someone act very irrationally. I've lashed out a car once when I was on my pushbike and getting squeezed into the kerb by a car that tried to overtake, failed and pushed into the side of me - I punched the window, something I'd never rationally do, but it was an instinctive reaction almost.
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TG.

[Freddyfruitba...]

Again, not condoning the biker's aggression in any way, but here's my take. Hard to make out much from the pics TBH - video needed.

Looking at the first couple of photos, judging by the space either side of the car in front, ie between the kerb and the car, and between the car and the bollard, then there would actually have been ample space for both you and the bike to pass through that gap side by side. You say you were aware of him coming up behind, so you could easily have simply eased over to the left slightly to let him through, had you chosen to do so. My guess is that's what the biker was expecting/hoping for, so he was pissed off when you made a point of blocking that from happening (because you thought what he was doing was illegal/dangerous/irritating/whatever.) Furthermore, you used the horn to express your displeasure ("make him aware of your presence, yeah right") which further escalated things.

[WD Forte]

Video would definitely give some context to the situation
where pics don't

Filtering at 40mph? that's overtaking in my book
especially on a single lane carriageway.
Filtering to me is when traffic gets all snarled up and you take advantage of gaps to make progress.
The pics don't suggest a snarl ups or congestion

Cheeky sneaky overtakes is OK in my book but only
if you're sensible and don't play silly buggers with bigger stuff.
Wandering all over the road and expecting others to get out of your way is asking for trouble.
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bikers smell of wee

[BRUN]

looking at this again, between seq 4 and 5, the position of the biker relative to you has barely changed at all, a bike can accelerate a lot quicker than most cars, in most cases, yet a distance has been travelled between the 2 pictures so it certainly looks to me you have sped up to match the bikes speed, rather than just letting them merge

that, coupled with the use of the horn, would have had the biker raging

were very vulnerable on a bike, let off the throttle and let the bike in, if the biker hadnt checked their mirrors then looking at the pictures they would have come back in hitting the front wing of your car

[Feasty]

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

[MarJay]

One point that this illustrates... It shows that speed limiters on vehicles will be dangerous in exactly this type of situation. If I were on the bike, I'd use the power of the bike to get me out of danger (which always sounds like we're making stuff up, but it's true). If that means momentarily breaking the speed limit, then do it because getting run over by a car is much worse than getting clear air by momentarily breaking the speed limit.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Nobby the Bastard]

Agreed. Thats why I let all my kids rid cycles on the road, including the 6 year old little bastard (under serious supervision) on the road but I won't let any of them have a moped.
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[kgm]