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Easily "derestricted" electric bikes?

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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 11:05 - 26 May 2022    Post subject: Easily "derestricted" electric bikes? Reply with quote

My folks have a Ukranian refugee living with them. He's quite elderly and has a lower limb amputation and could do with some transport.

The wheels of beaurocracy grind exceedingly slow so while he does have a Ukranian driving licence, he doesn't HAVE his Ukranian driving licence, he arrived in the UK after walking out of Ukraine carrying only a small rucksack.

Best we can think of just now is an electric bicycle. I've found a few out there which are easily convertible to manual throttle by means of simply plugging it in but I was wondering if there are any brands that can be easily hopped up a bit too?

The ideal is something he'll be able to get into the nearest big town on which is a 25 mile round trip on mostly flat.

We're aware this is technically illegal.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 12:48 - 26 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazon "kits" with a wheel included are likely to already go faster than 15.5mph and if not, I imagine are very crudely restricted. However, any ebike with a throttle stands out a mile to the Fuzz as it whizzes past without the rider pedalling, and as you probably know at any speed that style are illegal on the roads. Just thinking the last thing the guy will want is to be scolded (or worse) from the Fuzz (possible leniency in the circumstances, but it's not that relevant so perhaps not). 12.5 miles each way on a conventional ebike with the assistance turned right up will require very little effort, should be within the range of the thing and won't attract the wrong attention either?

Edit: this one apparently does close to 30mph if derestricted (according to the Q&A):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ZELUS-1000W-Electric-Bikes-Conversion/dp/B0895MWBN9/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=Electric%2BBike%2BConversion%2BKit&qid=1653565907&sr=8-3&th=1&psc=1
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:57 - 26 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm actually trying to persuade them to just apply for a UK provisional and get him through his CBT on a step-through. I reckon any sane and sensible instructor will make allowances for the guy having a wooden leg and not make him push it around too much.

However my Dad's currently obsessing about allegedly high speed Chinese electric trikes on ebay and I'm trying to nudge him in the direction of something that isn't going to crash in a cloud of burning lithium and at least looks like a bicycle.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 13:05 - 26 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

the NABD website wrote:
By and large disabled people take the same training and test as able-bodied riders, though there are a few 'dispensations' available to those disabled people who may have difficulty with certain aspects of the test due to the nature of their disabilities.

. . . .

Occasionally a minor aspect of the test may be given some leeway to accommodate a disability, for instance; it may be that your disability would not allow you to perform the part of the test where you have to push the bike around 180 degrees without using the engine. This is usually done with the rider walking beside the bike and pushing it, but it is permissible for disabled riders to perform this manoeuvre while sitting astride the machine.


I'm pretty sure the same would apply to a CBT. You can do it on a twist-n-go too, I'm sure he'd be able to cope with that and the school/instructor would be appropriately sensitive (especially given a) his circumstances and b) the terror associated with discrimination these days - imagine the headlines "Ukrainian refugee denied CBT over disability").

Edit: while I posted a link, personally I'd steer a country mile from any illegal e-bike. As you say, potential electrical issues, but they're generally being fitted to a bike simply not designed to handle those speeds safety, with likely woeful brakes unless you attach it to a bike with hydraulic discs (in good order too).
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 26 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Legally a 125 scooter + CBT would probably be the way to go.

With regards to >15mph eBikes I spent several years commuting to work on a 25mph then 40mph eBike and no fucks were given.

Easy-mode: 250~350W front wheel hub motor + controller + battery. Might cost you £400 + bike at most. Rear hub you could go 500W+ for a few quid more but a bit harder to fit.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 16:25 - 26 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd look again at whether it's really needed, i.e. could a bus journey or an Uber or online deliveries suffice? For a 25-mile round trip, is there really a real need? Has he read the Highway Code? Is it really country-country out there, where a Land Rover might not even stop after giving you a swipe while swerving into the middle of the road to dodge a pothole (after all, what's in it for him to stop if there's nothing but legal trouble that would follow)?

Ebikes are about riding a motorcycle without a licence or insurance, at the end of the day. People do it around my way all the time, and it's crowded and busy over here. They feel righteous (part of the psychology of hyping themselves up to break the law?) get away with it and everything's fine, until one day something happens, and it isn't fine any more. It all ends in tears when someone crashes, or injures someone, and then there are months of headaches and consequences that follow. Until then, of course, everyone wants to do away with legal impediments to riding a motorcycle without a licence, on the pavement, etc. When you've got a political lobby group when what you really need is legal representation and an insurance policy, and you're lying in a hospital with serious injuries and a lot of time to think things over, nobody really cares.

The best option must surely be for him to apply for a UK provisional licence, take a CBT and get a moped. A first provisional licence costs £34 or £43 depending on whether you order it online. A CBT costs what, £120 these days?

Alternatively, back to the NHS and look into options for disability scooters. I don't know how bad his amputation is. If it's really bad, there are disability road-going 4-wheeled machines which are perfectly legit and road-legal. I don't know what their range is. All I know is that being unfortunate doesn't entitle someone to break the law. Society tries to meet people's needs halfway. Bikes are fun and everyone understands that, so the "need" here for whatever the latest Chinese offering on Ebay is, especially when all he wants is to go to Tesco and there are alternative means of transportation, might not make for a sound argument.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:15 - 26 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

They live in bumfuck nowhere. There are two buses a day and as I recall, not particularly well timed if you want to go to the shop then get home again.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 21:35 - 26 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's the right sort of countryside, then you could mount a Briggs and Stratton in a wheelbarrow and get away with using that as your means of transport, as long as you remember to gift the local constable with a keg of scrumpy cider right on time every year, and a chicken or two for good measure on public holidays... Laughing

You're probably fine with electric bikes out there. I mean, the local youths around here have a very good sense of what, where and when there is an absence of a police presence, and I saw the local bikelife (out on some pretty serious offroad bikes, including 2-stroke KTMs) in a local park while out on a bicycle ride this evening. It was actually nice to see. They were probably too young to even realise that where they were riding there used to be a motocross track belonging to a motocross club... Really popular, back in the day. No sign it was ever there at all now - just a smart motorway. I'm sure there's a lesson in that somewhere. Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law!
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 20:24 - 21 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bhud wrote:

Ebikes are about riding a motorcycle without a licence or insurance, at the end of the day.


https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/960/cpsprodpb/E934/production/_107000795_meme4.jpg

The more sensible answer is that most push bikes aren't good for anything over 20-25mph and their posture is bad for road use.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 21 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran a 1kw rear hub motor with a 2kw motor controller for over a year.

Good fun, simple to install and the biggest expense is batteries.

The purpose of this bike was using it on the redways in Milton Keynes so there was a big benefit over a moped or something on the road.

The hub motor never got hot with a 1kw controller so running a 2kw controller was fine. It got slightly warm. I could sit at 30mph with a combined bike and rider weight of 150kg although I did bend/stretch/damage spokes quite regularly.

I also rigged up loads of LED strips as I had so much power available and it lit up like the 4th of Jew-lie.

I even had the batteries pressed into aluminium box section to keep them safe.

I should also add, this bike did almost burn my shed down when I got home from a 10 mile journey in the rain and then water got into the balance leads and fried my batteries.


Last edited by The Artist on 09:04 - 22 Aug 2022; edited 2 times in total
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 01:42 - 22 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jmoan wrote:

The more sensible answer is that most push bikes aren't good for anything over 20-25mph and their posture is bad for road use.


You're right, of course.
I suppose I just don't like the sort of people I've seen on them, thus far. I bought a Sturmey Archer gear hub (just for messing about with) from a guy who offered to bring it to me personally (as he lived locally), not long ago. I accepted, and he turned up on an e-bike. I had a good look at it. Just don't see anything about it I like. Like a moped, but slower and with less range. Disc brakes like a motorbike, but smaller. Has gears, but they're a mechanically crude Shimano mechanism slamming the chain sideways. I don't even like mopeds as they're way too lame and uncool for me. I mentioned that I ride petrol motorcycles and even though the guy was old (the more mature, the better at hiding the emotions), the look of disdain flitted across his face for a few milliseconds (long enough for me to notice). His voice: architect type, upper-middle class; knows what's best for everyone better than they know themselves. That sort.
Nah, man. I'm Gen X but my interests and tastes are all, basically, hateful boomer stuff. Antipathy of Twitter and Reddit mob mentality... I'm never going to ride an e-bike. It's not the machine itself that's to blame, but in this country, unfortunately, it's a part of the culture wars (anti-car, pro-envy), and in the culture wars everyone either submits or picks a side in earnest.

I've got the ancient BSA and it's handy (unattractive to crackheads so I can leave it anywhere) but really hard work due to the gearing on hills. Builds up some solid muscle though. Now I've also got a classic 1990s MTB. Good enough for me.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:14 - 22 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, said refugee has moved out in a huff anyway so the thread is now moot.

However on the subject of electric mot5orcycles, I was planning to make one when I realised what I actually want is a moped/autocycle which will do 250+mpg, 25-30mph reliably and hopefully be old enough to be tax and MOT exempt. Also cheaper to buy.

Got me wondering how the carbon footprint of me continuing to use a mid 70's pedal and pop with mind-blowingly good fuel consumption compares to buying and using a new E-bike.

Keeping my eye on ebay and such because I'd love an oddball French autocycle (even a solex) but failing that, there are a few late 70's pedal and pop hondas still doing the rounds. Then I can go to work in a haze of strawberry putoline.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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A100man
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PostPosted: 14:43 - 22 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Well, said refugee has moved out in a huff anyway so the thread is now moot.



Frustrated at not being able to get to the shops?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:57 - 22 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

IIRC (for cars at least) 10 years of running an ICE is equivalent to the building of the thing in terms of carbon footprint. For a moped I'd guess the environmental damage rhymes with "jackal" Smile
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 16:47 - 22 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
IIRC (for cars at least) 10 years of running an ICE is equivalent to the building of the thing in terms of carbon footprint. For a moped I'd guess the environmental damage rhymes with "jackal" Smile


It is super difficult to quantify the carbon impact of building EV's and even if done properly, the results could get twisted depending on who is presenting it and their goals.

Last one I read was 2-3 years of 10k/miles a year and you were in the "green" as it were when it comes to average EV vs average ICE vehicle.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 22 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

A100man wrote:


Frustrated at not being able to get to the shops?


Not so much. More the inevitable result of two stubborn old men living under one roof.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 19:04 - 22 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
However on the subject of electric mot5orcycles, I was planning to make one when I realised what I actually want is a moped/autocycle which will do 250+mpg, 25-30mph reliably and hopefully be old enough to be tax and MOT exempt.


How about a hybrid?

https://www.f2motorcycles.co.uk/hybrid_moped.html

https://www.f2motorcycles.co.uk/images/eff%20too%20hybrid/jawa_hybrid_800.jpg
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Previously : CB100N > CB250RS > XJ900F > GT550 > GPZ750R/1000RX > AJS M16 > R100RT > Bullet 500 > CB500 > LS650P > Bullet Electra X & YBR125 > Bullet 350 "Superstar" & YBR125 Custom > Royal Enfield Classic 500 Despatch Limited Edition (28 of 200) & CB Two-Fifty Nighthawk > ER5
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:24 - 22 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Shaggy D.A. wrote:


Pervert. That's dirty and you know it.

They have a Simson S51 on their website
Shifty
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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A100man
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PostPosted: 22:06 - 22 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
However on the subject of electric mot5orcycles, I was planning to make one when I realised what I actually want is a moped/autocycle which will do 250+mpg, 25-30mph reliably and hopefully be old enough to be tax and MOT exempt.


How about a hybrid?

https://www.f2motorcycles.co.uk/hybrid_moped.html

https://www.f2motorcycles.co.uk/images/eff%20too%20hybrid/jawa_hybrid_800.jpg


well ain't that a thing! Smile
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 00:36 - 24 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
I'd love an oddball French autocycle (even a solex)


I've never ridden one, but I remember seeing them a lot when I was a kid. Teachers and neighbours had them. Visually fascinating, and seemed full of potential. They were never that carefully maintained, but were always working machines: middle-aged people used them to go down to the shops and buy a baguette for 22 centimes (price capped by govt edict), and some fromage. That's how it was. And people would leave them parked on the road with no fear of them being nicked. Different world.
I think that would be awesome, in your part of the country. Really fit for purpose and quite charming.
On old 2-stroke mopeds, I could have picked up a Tomos locally for £50 (an easy recommission) a couple of years ago but I didn't. My mistake.
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