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Monarchy, yes or no?

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Keep the monarchy or retire it and become a republic?
Yes, God bless 'em, long live the King etc.
60%
 60%  [ 29 ]
No, etc
39%
 39%  [ 19 ]
Total Votes : 48

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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 20:31 - 25 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Okay, how about fuedal lords, C of E high ranking clergy and Tory party donators?


Why would anyone want religious leaders involved in todays day and age?

As for the rest, yes, we already have them, along with Labours version and even LibDems. So what? We are talking about change, not trying to copy the commons.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 25 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Polly Toynbe wrote this rather good article. Laughing


Ribenapigeon wrote:
She makes the point that its not so much the power of the monarch but rather the lack of power of our monarch as head of state which allows for the excesses of a prime minister.

So taking away any possible oversight of the monarchy and the Lords would result in the disempowerment of a prime minister?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 20:36 - 25 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Polly Toynbe wrote this rather good article on why the monarchy should be retired. She makes the point that its not so much the power of the monarch but rather the lack of power of our monarch as head of state which allows for the excesses of a prime minister. That what power the monarch has is really used to obscure the wealth the royals have and their private activities.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/17/britain-monarchy-end-royal-jubilee


The Guardian, lol.
It doesn't matter what kind of system of government you live under, you will always be miserable. So just accept your character, and leave stuff alone.


And a Social Democrat (failed) MP. Obviously an expert in something, I'm just not sure what.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 20:46 - 25 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:

It doesn't matter what kind of system of government you live under, you will always be miserable. So just accept your character, and leave stuff alone.


That is a very sad state to be in.


Yes, it is. But I've given up hope that you can do anything about your nature.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 21:42 - 25 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:


That is a very sad state to be in. I can be pretty cynical and im a skeptic by nature but I like to think there is some hope for a better world and I truly believe that democracy with an engaged public is a real force for that end.


Ok, I'll try taking you more seriously for a moment. What do you mean by a better world?
And we have a democracy with an engaged public - engaged when they think being so will achieve anything for them. And what if the majority disagree with what you want to see (as your very own poll here suggests they might)?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 23:33 - 25 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
...with an engaged public

Service guarantees citizenship

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/EmbellishedRadiantArmyant-size_restricted.gif
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 01:43 - 26 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Ribenapigeon wrote:
...with an engaged public

Service guarantees citizenship

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/EmbellishedRadiantArmyant-size_restricted.gif


No, somebody will come along and do it all for you. Somebody will....won't they?
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 06:46 - 26 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:

So taking away any possible oversight of the monarchy and the Lords would result in the disempowerment of a prime minister?


You clearly haven't read the article.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 08:09 - 26 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:

So taking away any possible oversight of the monarchy and the Lords would result in the disempowerment of a prime minister?


You clearly haven't read the article.

It just didn’t make sense.
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Tierbirdy
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 26 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Tierbirdy wrote:
What tangible benefits would there be in abolishing the monarchy? They dont really do anything other than be a figurehead and look pretty on coins & stamps. Theres a myriad of other things that could be done to improve the common folks lives, without scrapping thousands of years of history & tradition... and I've quite enjoyed watching some of the bizarre ancient tradition stuff theyve been rolling out over the past week.


For a long time I thought much the dame way. I saw the Queen as a sort of tribal chief of our tribe. What changed my opinion was the invasion of Ukraine which made me think more about democracy. I began looking at various sites ranking democracy and no suprise the UK lags behind in any ranking I found. This is because not just a head of state chosen by inheritance but also having the house of lords and a first past the post system of voting. Ive become a bit of a democracy purist over the last year and so the Queen dying just seems a good point to start moves towards reforming our democracy. Heres a couple of sites that rank democracies.

https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores

https://www.democracymatrix.com/ranking


So by your own links, we are classed as a "free" and "working democracy".

Sure some countries rank higher, I doubt having a monarchy or not is anything to do with it. Probably more likely the more liberal views of the population & its elected officials.

Once again, what benefit would we get from abolishing the monarchy? How would it make my life any better to get rid of them, or in what way am I suffering due to their continued existence?

They simply dont do anything anymore, beyond a few ceremonial formalities like royal assent etc. and before you go "A-hah! Exactly! They can dictate what laws become laws!" the last time royal assent was withheld was 1708.

Keep them around, they sprinkle magic tourist dust on everything and drive the Yanks wild.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 12:35 - 26 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I am a Republican, in that I think the ultimate head of a state should be elected. However, I actually can see a place for the royal family and keeping up many of the ancient traditions.

I didn't use to, I used to think they should just be abolished as the modern remnants of medieval gangsters but since I got involved with the livery companies in the City I can see the value of all these ancient traditions.

I can see that their presence brings a lot of money in through the tourism and service industries. I dare say the economic benefit of the royal family is greater than the cost of maintaining them.

Then again, I think there is reforms possible to reduce the cost and return more of the Royal Estate to the people.

Personally I think the UK should be a Federal Republic with a Monarchy who are simply there for ceremony and have no legal powers or activity anymore. If it's practically possible I have no idea but oh well.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:46 - 26 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
I am a Republican, in that I think the ultimate head of a state should be elected. However, I actually can see a place for the royal family and keeping up many of the ancient traditions.

I didn't use to, I used to think they should just be abolished as the modern remnants of medieval gangsters but since I got involved with the livery companies in the City I can see the value of all these ancient traditions.

I can see that their presence brings a lot of money in through the tourism and service industries. I dare say the economic benefit of the royal family is greater than the cost of maintaining them.

Then again, I think there is reforms possible to reduce the cost and return more of the Royal Estate to the people.

Personally I think the UK should be a Federal Republic with a Monarchy who are simply there for ceremony and have no legal powers or activity anymore. If it's practically possible I have no idea but oh well.


The thought of having someone like Sturgeon or Boris or Corbyn as head of state fills me with dread. The pressure groups for say trans coming out and screaming to the world we are all trans haters or anti LGBQ if we don't vote one of them into the position. Then you would have the Islamaphobes if you don't vote a muslim or racists if you don't vote in a black. Vote a white person in and you are perpetuating colonialism. FFS, the melt down wold be epic.

Lets stick with a constitutional monarchy. Slim it down by all means but it's way more classy than having Diane with odd shoes on.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 13:35 - 26 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Having that top tier keeps all the other celebs in check as well. Laughing
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:33 - 26 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
This will all be forgotten about again soon, until the next Royal occasion. If the media didn't pay any attention to the Royals, no one would even be thinking about it, and all the media is interested in is the gossip column stuff.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:29 - 26 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:


Then again, I think there is reforms possible to reduce the cost and return more of the Royal Estate to the people.


The Royal Family and its assets have been slimmed down considerably over the past decade or so, and I believe King Charles has plans to slim it further.

I'd keep them in some form just for the sense of British history, reminders of where the nation has come from, and something that adds to sense of British identity.
Very little, if anything, would be gained from getting rid entirely.
But I still do NOT want to put more power in the hands of politicians! If anything, we ought to go the other way. The less they can interfere in people's lives the better.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 16:02 - 26 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
I believe King Charles has plans to slim it further


King Charles buzzes people away from him like a prissy brat mate, I think the guy is a complete fanny already.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/king-charles-iii-shooing-staff-twitter_uk_631f1b83e4b000d9885318d4

and a bit of a fanny on another occassion:

https://twitter.com/malonebarry/status/1569731428933419009

Also more details of him being a complete fanny:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1384798/prince-charles-news-boiled-egg-rumour-the-crown-Netflix-royal-family-latest-ont
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:25 - 26 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm not overly keen on him myself, but we'll see how he goes as King. He has said he has to change - time will tell.
I haven't liked many a prime minister, but I never thought to abolish Parliament because of it. I don't suppose Charles will be around for long. For one thing, I suspect he has high blood pressure Laughing
Most of you complaining about the monarchy would be complaining about a president and a republic within five minutes Laughing
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:29 - 26 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Btw, don't bother with links aimed at me. I rarely bother with them, prefer to find information for myself when the mood takes me.
And definitely don't waste your time with links to Twatter! Your stock plummets in my books the instant you do it Laughing
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 17:41 - 26 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
I don't suppose Charles will be around for long. For one thing, I suspect he has high blood pressure Laughing


chickenstrip wrote:
don't waste your time with links to Twatter! Your stock plummets in my books the instant you do it Laughing


https://twitter.com/minesawater/status/1574304648499970048?cxt=HHwWgICy4ZPvhtkrAAAA
Razz
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:30 - 26 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:


chickenstrip wrote:
don't waste your time with links to Twatter! Your stock plummets in my books the instant you do it Laughing


https://twitter.com/minesawater/status/1574304648499970048?cxt=HHwWgICy4ZPvhtkrAAAA
Razz


You were already at rockbottom Laughing
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 21:28 - 26 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
I'm not overly keen on him myself, but we'll see how he goes as King. He has said he has to change - time will tell.
I haven't liked many a prime minister, but I never thought to abolish Parliament because of it. I don't suppose Charles will be around for long. For one thing, I suspect he has high blood pressure Laughing
Most of you complaining about the monarchy would be complaining about a president and a republic within five minutes Laughing


But not the role of president.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 23:08 - 26 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Anyway, I don't know what you Scots are whingeing about. You'll be off out of the UK soon, and then you can have your socialist republic. Then you'll be able to bulldoze Balmoral (after we've emptied it of course), and build one of your drab, crumbly concrete, state-owned blocks of flats in its place, and you'll be able to legalise heroin, bagpipes, deep-fried Mars Bars and all the other wonderful things you're so attached to Laughing
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 06:57 - 27 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Anyway, I don't know what you Scots are whingeing about. You'll be off out of the UK soon, and then you can have your socialist republic. Then you'll be able to bulldoze Balmoral (after we've emptied it of course), and build one of your drab, crumbly concrete, state-owned blocks of flats in its place, and you'll be able to legalise heroin, bagpipes, deep-fried Mars Bars and all the other wonderful things you're so attached to Laughing


Im not Scottish, im a "new Scot" apparently Shocked
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:48 - 27 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hang on, the monarchy is non-democratic therefore bad but so is the Prime Minister.

Wouldn't it be better to reform the democracy part of the government (which arguably doesn't work very well or work to the benefit of the people) than bin something that actually succeeds at the task its given?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 11:26 - 27 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
The EU heirachy is not elected by the plebs but lots of people think we should be back under their control.
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