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883iron
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Joined: 23 Nov 2022
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PostPosted: 21:00 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Cambridge hardwick round about Reply with quote

Evening all I am new to riding I’m trying to pass my mod 2 I’ve not had the best instructors.

There is a roundabout on st Neots road next to the bp garage you approach the roundabout from hardwick so the be garage would be on your left. To go straight over would the 3rd exit there is no dedicated lanes.

I’ve seen so many students take the second to the airfield safely as I assume they are not sure what position to be in.


I would personally keep center/right for the 3rd exit

I’m asking if any of you guys know what roundabout I am on about and what position you would get in or if any of you guys have done your test via this roundabout.

Kind regards
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arry
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here?

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2187754,-0.0175437,3a,75y,246.79h,73.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCBpoLgxwmIsXE19zlUr-JQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
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883iron
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah that’s the one mate
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is only one lane. Absolutely no markings defining lane at all.

There's no point discussing which lane to be in . There is only one lane.
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883iron
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

It’s definitely the correct roundabout all advice and help would be great
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doggone
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PostPosted: 21:29 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are being followed during a test you should probably consider it a single lane right round and just follow any other traffic without trying to do anything clever.
In normal conditions a bike and car could go round side by side as if there were marked lanes provided both were aware of each others intentions.

It's not something to be worried about there are very few entirely standard roundabouts but the basic rule to negotiate one safely is not that difficult unless you are an American.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:32 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, if you are going left, position left. If you are going nearer straight on, sit in the middle. If you are going right (further than 180 degrees past entry point) position right.

This, however, is real world and is to give a hint to the drivers around me where I'm going if my indicators have failed.

Just use your fucking indicators.
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883iron
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PostPosted: 22:04 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the advice I know how I would take it like you say which is safe.I just don’t want to fuck it up I always indicate half the people on the road must have to pay extra for indicators
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dave001
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PostPosted: 22:14 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

883iron wrote:
Thanks for all the advice I know how I would take it like you say which is safe.I just don’t want to fuck it up I always indicate half the people on the road must have to pay extra for indicators



look at there wheels not there indicators as much the wheels will always tell you where there going
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Zen Dog
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PostPosted: 22:21 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the first exit, indicate left (and if there were 2 lanes, left lane).

For the second exit, indicate left after passing the first exit (and if there were 2 lanes, left lane).

For the third exit, indicate right, and indicate left after passing the second exit (and if there were 2 lanes, right lane, moving into the left lane after passing the second exit).

There are roundabouts in the UK where the highway code is a bit ambiguous (for example, where the first exit is more than 180 degrees around), but this isn't one of them really. On the other hand, sometimes people just treat particular roundabouts in a strange way. There is one near me where you should definitely be in the right hand lane to to take a particular exit, but everyone uses the left lane. No idea why. So if this roundabout is one of those, it's probably easier to just go with it.
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Keithy
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PostPosted: 22:45 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Happy days, takes me back to my MOD2!

Remember that spot very well, my instructor even had us stopping half way up the hill on third exit you are referring to in order that we were ok with a hill start.

I’d be centre of the lane, left indicate as you pass the hatching on the second turn.
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883iron
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PostPosted: 07:02 - 24 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all of your advice on this beauty I have no idea why my instructor doesn’t know.
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xX-Alex-Xx
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PostPosted: 08:19 - 24 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

dave001 wrote:
883iron wrote:
Thanks for all the advice I know how I would take it like you say which is safe.I just don’t want to fuck it up I always indicate half the people on the road must have to pay extra for indicators



look at there wheels not there indicators as much the wheels will always tell you where there going


Exactly this. Thumbs Up
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Capt Sisko
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PostPosted: 20:27 - 02 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zen Dog wrote:
For the first exit, indicate left (and if there were 2 lanes, left lane).

For the second exit, indicate left after passing the first exit (and if there were 2 lanes, left lane).

Correct

Zen Dog wrote:
For the third exit, indicate right, and indicate left after passing the second exit (and if there were 2 lanes, right lane, moving into the left lane after passing the second exit).

Completely wrong and frankly, bloody dangerous.

By indicating right you are telling other road users you are turning right. In this case you are not, you're going straight ahead, in at 6 out at 12. It would not be unreasonable for a vehicle to assume you were in fact wanting to turn right and to try and come past you on your left if there was enough space. Ditto if there was a vehicle waiting in exit 1 or 2. They would think you're turning right, so they nip out and by the time you've got to your exit you've go no place to go. Just because their aren't white lines painted on the road doesn't mean people won't try to make it into two lanes! And remember you're the one who's going to come off worse in a argument about road space.

If I'd done what is being suggested I'd have failed my IAM test on the spot. Indicating is part of the TUG system. 'Take - Use - Give' and if you give out misleading information, don't blame others if they interpenetrate it incorrectly.

The correct procedure is to not indicate as you approach the roundabout, stay left of centre so you are commanding the road position, keep to that position and as you pass exit 2 indicate left, safety check if needed and turn off the roundabout at exit 3 in a suitable gear accelerating smoothly. Section 186 of the HC is quite clear on this. It states you should only indicate right or to use the RH lane if you are turning right or going full circle. In this case you are not, you are going straight ahead. The advice for taking intermediate turns is also quite clear. Stay in the appropriate lane and indicate as described.

HOWEVER. If there isn't any other traffic around it isn't unreasonable to 'straight line' the roundabout. i.e. enter left, almost clip the roundabout and exit left. Minimal flicking left & right, maximum speed & grip. BUT it relies on extra checks, good visibility and awareness. Best not to do it unless your are an IAM Masters, but by the time you've got to that point, I won't say different rules apply, but there are certain expectations associated with as they say 'making progress' (or as we say, how to ride fast without getting pulled over).

One last comment, if your current instructor isn't up to it, dump him. That might sound unfair, but you're paying good money for is expertise and it sounds to me like he's not passing that on. It might also be worth getting an assessment from another instructor. If your current is letting you down in one way, maybe he's letting you down in others.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 10:39 - 05 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as you're not riding in the gutter I don think you need to worry about road position, use the rule of thumb of ride in the same position a car driver would be sitting in their car. If the examiner tells you to "take the third exit" then you would indicate right at the approach.
The basic set of steps you would take would be (after the examiner tells you the direction they want you to take), Observation-Speed (lose)-Observation-Indication-Enter roundabout-Observation-Indication-Observation-Exit-Cancel indication-Speed (pin it until you hit the speed limit).
There's a rhythm to roundabout navigation and get it right and you can whip around them easily.
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Zen Dog
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PostPosted: 16:07 - 06 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capt Sisko wrote:
By indicating right you are telling other road users you are turning right. In this case you are not, you're going straight ahead, in at 6 out at 12.

That's where we disagree. I think you should be indicating right because you ARE turning right. But whether you think it's a straight on, or a right turn, depends on what you use to determine the "6" position , and the exit position, on the clock.

If you use "the point at which, having the centre of the roundabout as the clock face, the centre of the dotted line of the entry lane" as the "6" position, and "the point at which the centre of the exit lane leaves the roundabout" as the exit position, as I assume you are, then you are correct. See below.

https://i.imgur.com/qiV63Scl.png

But using that definition means that most roundabouts that road users would regard as having a "straight on" exit are not in fact, straight on (even though they clearly are). Under this definition, they're left turns, because they're actually more like "6 to 11". See below (ignoring that in this example straight on is also the first exit).

https://i.imgur.com/BIedW4Gl.png

But another way of defining the entry "6" position is "the point at which the general direction of the entry road (not lane) intersects the roundabout" and the exit as "the general direction that the exit road (not lane) intersects the roundabout". This is a much less prescriptive but also more intuitive definition, since you can usually determine "clock position" well before actually reaching the roundabout dotted entry line in most cases. It also makes "straight on" exits much more actual "6 to 12", as I think most people would expect. See below.

https://i.imgur.com/cXWajhkl.png

And using this definition also makes our original example a right turn with the exit at about 1 o'clock. Another way to imagine this is to see the roundabout as an almost perfect 5 pointed star. And if you cut a 5 pointed star down the middle you'll have two points on the left and two on the right. As such, you can view the roundabout as having 2 left exits and 2 right exits, no matter which entry road you use. See below.

https://i.imgur.com/KsKdddKl.png

This would be the kind of matter of opinion you could argue about all day. But of course, I'm not IAM qualified and my take on this is "completely wrong and frankly, bloody dangerous". This is an IAM test failing matter! So clearly this isn't a matter of opinion. Can you show me where in the Highway Code it explains exactly how (without signs etc.) you can determine if something is a right turn on a roundabout or not, so I can correct the error of my ways? https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/roundabouts.html
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My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011
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