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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:39 - 09 Dec 2022    Post subject: New generation fighter jet Reply with quote

The UK is to develop the Tempest, the next generation fighter jet, in conjunction with Japan and Italy.
If all its missiles miss the enemy aircraft, it will sacrifice itself by ramming it, but it'll do it in style Laughing
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Islander
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PostPosted: 17:38 - 09 Dec 2022    Post subject: Re: New generation fighter jet Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
The UK is to develop the Tempest, the next generation fighter jet, in conjunction with Japan and Italy.
If all its missiles miss the enemy aircraft, it will sacrifice itself by ramming it, but it'll do it in style Laughing


It'll be flown by the RAF. Of course it will miss. Razz Laughing
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:14 - 09 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’d have thought drones and the latest anti-aircraft missiles would make manned fighters redundant, much like infantry weapons are defeating tanks in Ukraine. Has there been a battle for air-supremacy there?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:30 - 09 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
I’d have thought drones and the latest anti-aircraft missiles would make manned fighters redundant, much like infantry weapons are defeating tanks in Ukraine. Has there been a battle for air-supremacy there?


I think drones have a bit of a way to go before they can completely replace manned aircraft yet. Vulnerability to both ground and air systems and poor payload capacity I would guess as a couple of current limitations. They'll probably get there eventually, but a way to go yet.

My guess is that this will probably not be strictly a 'fighter', i.e. air superiority only, but another multi-role aircraft.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:01 - 09 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

As yet no decision has been made as to whether it will be piloted (even if remotely) or completely autominous.

In addition there are also plans for a 'loyal wingman' (i.e. a drone or drones) to act as support.

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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:34 - 09 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
As yet no decision has been made as to whether it will be piloted (even if remotely) or completely autominous.

In addition there are also plans for a 'loyal wingman' (i.e. a drone or drones) to act as support.


That surprises me if so. As yet I think I would be correct in saying there's nothing anywhere near at that level in service anywhere today, and so would be a quantum jump from what currently exists. And whilst I get that tech. moves on at a fairly rapid pace, what it says to me is that this aircraft is more concept than reality at this stage, and it might be a very long time before it takes to the sky. New military aircraft generally historically take much longer than anticipated to get from the drawing board into service, and it sounds like there might be a new order of challenges to overcome with pilotless systems of the kind of capability that the top manned aircraft currently have. But maybe I'll be proved wrong.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 09 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
I’d have thought drones and the latest anti-aircraft missiles would make manned fighters redundant, much like infantry weapons are defeating tanks in Ukraine. Has there been a battle for air-supremacy there?


Yeah, "fighter" might be a bit of a stretch more like "mobile airborne defence platforms." Doesn't roll off the tongue though Thinking How about "MADplat" everyone loves an acronym!
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:01 - 09 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very much in the concept phase. The programme is expected to take 25 years until delivery. Or so I hear....

Easy, it's an air superiorty vehicle and will be designed primarily as a fiighter to shoot down other vehicles. You have to remember with stealth most air to air or ground to air missiles don't actually work very well.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 20:18 - 09 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
You have to remember with stealth most air to air or ground to air missiles don't actually work very well.


This is what I always found fascinating about EW though. It's a constant battle at the highest level to counter the enemy's latest tech. You never know where it might go next. You can bet there are people working on how to defeat current stealth technologies right now. It's never a static business. Every system has vulnerabilities.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 21:17 - 09 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Very much in the concept phase. The programme is expected to take 25 years until delivery. Or so I hear....

The BBC website is saying mid-2030s, so 13 years, which seems ambitious.

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
You have to remember with stealth most air to air or ground to air missiles don't actually work very well.

Currently, but it’s an evolutionary battle. If you can afford to lose the machine but keep the highly-trained drone pilot that’s probably the way it’s going.

Like I said with respect to Ukraine, who’d have thought infantry would be killing tanks with portable weapons, and why isn’t the Russian airforce dominant?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:19 - 09 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Currently stealth means a radar cross section the size of a pigeon, infra red from the exhaust about the same unless directly behind and visually much higher but distance and only having 2 eyes limit it.

I expect hi rez cameras and AI to identify what they can see being the defence to stealth until the equivelent to a invisibility cloak is invented but even then it wasn't infallible (marauders map).
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:02 - 09 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect quantum computing might herald a bit of a revolution in military technology. No idea what kind of capabilities that might enable, probably advance AI a bit for one thing. As far as I'm aware it's still in its infancy now. But perhaps also technologies that as yet are entirely unknown. And who knows what is being worked on by various military-industrial players now. We tend to focus on whatever the latest thing we see is, but obviously it's a very secretive world.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 22:06 - 09 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm trying to imagine the frustration Japanese engineers will find working with the Italians.

*wipes fag-ash off the precision optics with an oily rag* "Looks good no?"
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:37 - 09 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
I'm trying to imagine the frustration Japanese engineers will find working with the Italians.

*wipes fag-ash off the precision optics with an oily rag* "Looks good no?"


Don't let the Italians anywhere near the electrical stuff!
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 10 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
I'm trying to imagine the frustration Japanese engineers will find working with the Italians.

*wipes fag-ash off the precision optics with an oily rag* "Looks good no?"


Don't let the Italians anywhere near the electrical stuff!


Alfa Romeo and Ducati on on corrosion prevention and electronics Gagged Laughing
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 14:05 - 12 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'll never get built. Murica will get there first and we'll end up buying an off the peg solution.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:28 - 12 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

redeem ouzzer wrote:
It'll never get built. Murica will get there first and we'll end up buying an off the peg solution.


Been a good mix of home-grown and Yank stuff used by the RAF over the years. The Typhoon wasn't Yank, but we've often upgraded American aircraft with our own kit too.
At least we still have an industry that is capable of producing some state-of-the-art equipment.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 15:16 - 12 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will happen. Team tempest has been existence for about 5 years, negotiations with the Italians have been going on for 3 year and for 2 with the Japanese . A 4th potential partner dropped out because they wanted a platform optimised for a different role.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:35 - 12 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on what "it" is. A lot can change, especially over such long timescales, and even more so when a project is still at concept stage.
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