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ER6 no spark on one side

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Hesi
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 13 Jan 2023
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PostPosted: 15:16 - 13 Jan 2023    Post subject: ER6 no spark on one side Reply with quote
Hey guys could really use some help!
Bike is a 2009 Kawasaki Er6n
I accidentally connected the battery in reverse for about half a second and now I don’t have a spark on one side, I have so far replaced the ignition coil, the ecu, the main relay box and the starter relay yet still no spark.
I have been through the entire ignition circuit to check for continuity and resistance and it all seems fine, there is power getting to the ignition coil plugs so really don’t understand why no spark.
Not sure what to do next, any ideas?
Thanks.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 16:07 - 13 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Swap everything between the ECU and the sparkplug over from one side to the other and see if the problem swaps sides. If it doesn't, the problem is upstream of the ECU. If it does, swap everything back one at a time until it changes back and you've found your problem.
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sickpup
Old Timer



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 16:22 - 13 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Have you replaced the plugs yet?

Swap the coils over to eliminate a coil problem.

Check feed to coils when turning engine over.

Check continuity between the coil plugs and the ECU plug.

It'll be one of these or the new ECU is dead, but probably one of these.
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Hesi
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 13 Jan 2023
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PostPosted: 16:31 - 13 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah changed plugs
Swapped coils and both work on one side but not the other
Continuity is good between coil plugs and ecu plugs
I haven’t checked the feed to coils whilst turning engine over, what would I be looking for results wise?
Thanks for the help
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Easy-X
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Joined: 08 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: 19:15 - 13 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just for fun run a wire directly from the battery negative and ground the plugs against this wire instead of the frame.
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sickpup
Old Timer



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 13 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hesi wrote:
Yeah changed plugs
Swapped coils and both work on one side but not the other
Continuity is good between coil plugs and ecu plugs
I haven’t checked the feed to coils whilst turning engine over, what would I be looking for results wise?
Thanks for the help


I find it very odd that you have 2 ECU's that have failed in the exact same way, never heard of one let alone two failing before.

The coils use a common earth, the red wire that goes into them so check for continuity between the coil plugs as well as to earth i.e the negative of the battery.

The ECU outputs are a black wire to the left coil and a black with green trace wire to the right.
Recheck continuity to the coil plugs and check the ECU plug from the ECU side not from the wire input side.
The ECU output is likely to be a 12v pulse with the negative side of the multimeter connected to earth.

If everything you say is correct, then I am leaning towards there is a problem with the connector plug with attaches to the ECU. This it would seem is the obvious failure point.

Are you checking continuity with a multi-meter or test lamp?
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 11:21 - 14 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Why earth the spark plug to the battery? The circuit for the spark is coil to plug to engine block to frame to coil where only one plug is connected to the coil.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 14 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Why earth the spark plug to the battery? The circuit for the spark is coil to plug to engine block to frame to coil where only one plug is connected to the coil.


The story makes little sense: new plugs + swapping coils still only sparks on one side Thinking There's very little going on in a spark set up - signal (from ECU, CDI or points rotor) > coil > spark plug > frame. I just want to discount something daft like one side of the engine (which is being used as an ad-hoc earthing point) being slightly more grubby than the other. TBH, clutching at straws.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
World Chat Champion



Joined: 09 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: 13:39 - 14 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
A bit of info on the bike’s recent history might help. When did it last run, and why was the battery disconnected? Does the bike have a self-diagnostic function?
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Nobby the Bastard
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Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 13:40 - 14 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
The signal from the ecu is earthed back from the coilto the battery/frame and that completes the LT side.

The HT side is in essence a wholly separate circuit that has electricity inducted into it by the voltage drop in the coil in the LT side.

The earth from the coil may be at fault but adding a separate earth from the plug to the battery won't solve that. You'd have to do it from the coil on the LT side.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:03 - 14 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Okay so these are coil-on-plug. If you have both plugs out and earthed against the engine case the OP is saying only one is sparking. Let's say the left is sparking. If you swap the coil connectors over which one is now? The left again or has the spark moved to the right?
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 18:23 - 14 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
He's already swapped the coils over. The problem didn't go with the coil.
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sickpup
Old Timer



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 18:37 - 14 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's almost like my in-depth knowledgeable post is invisible, is it?
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Hesi
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 13 Jan 2023
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PostPosted: 17:07 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:
Hesi wrote:
Yeah changed plugs
Swapped coils and both work on one side but not the other
Continuity is good between coil plugs and ecu plugs
I haven’t checked the feed to coils whilst turning engine over, what would I be looking for results wise?
Thanks for the help


I find it very odd that you have 2 ECU's that have failed in the exact same way, never heard of one let alone two failing before.

The coils use a common earth, the red wire that goes into them so check for continuity between the coil plugs as well as to earth i.e the negative of the battery.

The ECU outputs are a black wire to the left coil and a black with green trace wire to the right.
Recheck continuity to the coil plugs and check the ECU plug from the ECU side not from the wire input side.
The ECU output is likely to be a 12v pulse with the negative side of the multimeter connected to earth.

If everything you say is correct, then I am leaning towards there is a problem with the connector plug with attaches to the ECU. This it would seem is the obvious failure point.

Are you checking continuity with a multi-meter or test lamp?


Okay so red wire coil to coil is good, red to earth has continuity but high resistance on both coils although I remember having a problem ages ago and it was the same but didn’t turn out to be the problem so not sure if it matters? This was with ignition off, I also tried with the ignition switched on results were red wire coil to coil good, red wire to earth just made the screen go blank on the multimeter when testing for continuity/resistance but did strangely read the battery voltage

Ecu outputs good continuity on both sides of ecu plug, reading battery voltage with ignition on and pulsing at around 8-9v when turning over engine

I also rechecked the spark and this time noticed that when both coil plugs were plugged in neither side would spark but with only one plugged in at a time one side would spark but not the other, same side as before.
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Pete.
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 18:45 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:
It's almost like my in-depth knowledgeable post is invisible, is it?


The one where you said that the red feed to the coils is connected to frame earth? Seems to me like it's actually a power feed and the two other wires are the respective grounds that fire the coils.

Some models take the red feed from the ECU, other models didn't take power via the ECU but straight from the ignition fuse via the stop switch. As below.
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sickpup
Old Timer



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 19:09 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hesi wrote:
Okay so red wire coil to coil is good, red to earth has continuity but high resistance on both coils although I remember having a problem ages ago and it was the same but didn’t turn out to be the problem so not sure if it matters? This was with ignition off, I also tried with the ignition switched on results were red wire coil to coil good, red wire to earth just made the screen go blank on the multimeter when testing for continuity/resistance but did strangely read the battery voltage


That all sounds correct. My mistake, the red wire is a common live for the ingintion to the coil and ECU.

Hesi wrote:
Ecu outputs good continuity on both sides of ecu plug, reading battery voltage with ignition on and pulsing at around 8-9v when turning over engine


That all sounds correct. There is likely a resistor in the base of the ignition switch that drops ignition voltage to 8-9v as an anti-hotwire measure.

Do you get 8-9v at both coil plugs without the coils plugged in?

Hesi wrote:
I also rechecked the spark and this time noticed that when both coil plugs were plugged in neither side would spark but with only one plugged in at a time one side would spark but not the other, same side as before.


The crankshaft position sensor is a simple 2 wire type so this won't cause a spark issue unless you have messed with it.

If there is a pulse at both coil plugs I would be inclined to investigate the coils more.
For example are they the correct coils with the correct ohms resistance?

If there isn't a pulse at the coil plugs I would be looking at the wiring between the ECU and the coil plugs.

The only other thing I can think of is a dead battery but then the engine wouldn't turn over. This is possible after connecting the battery the wrong way but very unlikely.

You could try using the self diagnostic lead to try and get the fault code but in my experience the ER6 uses a very limited diagnostic system. I have a Healtech box which couldn't diagnose an injector problem with an ER6 so really don't recommend it.
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sickpup
Old Timer



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 19:24 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pete. wrote:
The one where you said that the red feed to the coils is connected to frame earth? Seems to me like it's actually a power feed and the two other wires are the respective grounds that fire the coils.

Some models take the red feed from the ECU, other models didn't take power via the ECU but straight from the ignition fuse via the stop switch. As below.


Yep you're correct, I realised with the results and reread the wiring diagram seeing my mistake. It was a useful mistake, It told us the OP knows exactly what he is doing with a multi-meter.

On the 2009 ER6 power goes from the Fuse to stop switch and branches to the coil and the ECU so the ECU is always powered with the kill switch on.
We know the ECU is getting power as it sparks on one side. As two ECU's 'appear' to have failed in the same way I'm still inclined to think its the wiring between the ECU and the coils or even the coils or these are actually causing the ECU to fail on one side.
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Hesi
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 13 Jan 2023
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PostPosted: 17:43 - 16 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:
Hesi wrote:
Okay so red wire coil to coil is good, red to earth has continuity but high resistance on both coils although I remember having a problem ages ago and it was the same but didn’t turn out to be the problem so not sure if it matters? This was with ignition off, I also tried with the ignition switched on results were red wire coil to coil good, red wire to earth just made the screen go blank on the multimeter when testing for continuity/resistance but did strangely read the battery voltage


That all sounds correct. My mistake, the red wire is a common live for the ingintion to the coil and ECU.

Hesi wrote:
Ecu outputs good continuity on both sides of ecu plug, reading battery voltage with ignition on and pulsing at around 8-9v when turning over engine


That all sounds correct. There is likely a resistor in the base of the ignition switch that drops ignition voltage to 8-9v as an anti-hotwire measure.

Do you get 8-9v at both coil plugs without the coils plugged in?

Hesi wrote:
I also rechecked the spark and this time noticed that when both coil plugs were plugged in neither side would spark but with only one plugged in at a time one side would spark but not the other, same side as before.


The crankshaft position sensor is a simple 2 wire type so this won't cause a spark issue unless you have messed with it.

If there is a pulse at both coil plugs I would be inclined to investigate the coils more.
For example are they the correct coils with the correct ohms resistance?

If there isn't a pulse at the coil plugs I would be looking at the wiring between the ECU and the coil plugs.

The only other thing I can think of is a dead battery but then the engine wouldn't turn over. This is possible after connecting the battery the wrong way but very unlikely.

You could try using the self diagnostic lead to try and get the fault code but in my experience the ER6 uses a very limited diagnostic system. I have a Healtech box which couldn't diagnose an injector problem with an ER6 so really don't recommend it.


Just tested the coil plugs whilst unplugged and they’re both pulsing although voltage is lower today at around 6v, I was going to try recharging the battery tonight but have just ordered a new one instead to rule it out should be here tomorrow so I’ll test again

Checked coils and both are slightly over the specified resistance for primary windings at 1.8, should be between 1.1-1.5 but the one I replaced came from a working er6 same year as mine so not sure if it matters or not, secondary windings are in range
I did check the self diagnostic at the beginning and it was code 52 which is coil no2 which is the one I replaced

Appreciate the help mate, hopefully I can figure it out soon! I’ll post the results when I get the new battery
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sickpup
Old Timer



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 14:57 - 17 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hesi wrote:
Just tested the coil plugs whilst unplugged and they’re both pulsing although voltage is lower today at around 6v, I was going to try recharging the battery tonight but have just ordered a new one instead to rule it out should be here tomorrow so I’ll test again


If the voltage is still much lower at the coil end compared to the ECU end it suggests there is a problem with the wiring between the coils and ECU.

Hesi wrote:
Checked coils and both are slightly over the specified resistance for primary windings at 1.8, should be between 1.1-1.5 but the one I replaced came from a working er6 same year as mine so not sure if it matters or not, secondary windings are in range
I did check the self diagnostic at the beginning and it was code 52 which is coil no2 which is the one I replaced


Although 0.3 ohms is only a small amount it is 20% higher resistance than maximum which 'could' potentially stop the ECU pulse.
Would likely be fine if it was only one coil but both could be the killer.

The code 52 would include the wiring to the coil.

Hesi wrote:
Appreciate the help mate, hopefully I can figure it out soon! I’ll post the results when I get the new battery


I'm still leaning towards the wiring to/or the coils.
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Hesi
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 13 Jan 2023
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PostPosted: 21:40 - 17 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:
Hesi wrote:
Just tested the coil plugs whilst unplugged and they’re both pulsing although voltage is lower today at around 6v, I was going to try recharging the battery tonight but have just ordered a new one instead to rule it out should be here tomorrow so I’ll test again


If the voltage is still much lower at the coil end compared to the ECU end it suggests there is a problem with the wiring between the coils and ECU.

Hesi wrote:
Checked coils and both are slightly over the specified resistance for primary windings at 1.8, should be between 1.1-1.5 but the one I replaced came from a working er6 same year as mine so not sure if it matters or not, secondary windings are in range
I did check the self diagnostic at the beginning and it was code 52 which is coil no2 which is the one I replaced


Although 0.3 ohms is only a small amount it is 20% higher resistance than maximum which 'could' potentially stop the ECU pulse.
Would likely be fine if it was only one coil but both could be the killer.

The code 52 would include the wiring to the coil.

Hesi wrote:
Appreciate the help mate, hopefully I can figure it out soon! I’ll post the results when I get the new battery


I'm still leaning towards the wiring to/or the coils.


Tested with the new battery and still the same, both coil plugs are pulsing at 9-10v now, I don’t understand how they’re both getting the same amount of power but only one side will spark, you would think it’s the coil but they both work fine on the one side and both not on the other very confusing also was wondering if the outputs from the ecu to the coils are the black and black/green wires that would make them positive but the red wires are also positive so wouldn’t that mean they’re getting two positive feeds?
My neighbour is lending me a diagnostic reader tomorrow although I’m not sure if it will help much
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Hesi
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 13 Jan 2023
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PostPosted: 19:07 - 13 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well I finally have an update to post, it's both good and bad.

From where I left off at the last post I ended up changing the stator and the rectifier because they were reading incorrectly but still the same thing only sparking on one side, I thoroughly checked the wiring and really couldn't find anything wrong anywhere but by this point I had replaced the starter relay, ECU, coil sticks, main relay box, the battery, the right handlebar controls (kill switch and starter button), the stator and rectifier so not much left it could be!

I bought a wiring loom and completely rewired the bike, after that I started off with the original ECU and relay box out of curiosity and the same thing happened only sparking on one side, the same side as before, I then swapped to the new ECU and finally both sides were sparking although it looked like a fairly weak spark in comparison, maybe because it was now splitting the power between two?
Anyway looks like it was a problem with both the ECU and wiring and potentially one of the many other parts I changed I guess.

The bad bit is that whilst the engine now runs it keeps kind of bogging down and almost cutting out between roughly 1.5-4k rpm especially whilst under load, before this whole thing after accidently reversing the battery it was also doing a similar thing but a bit worse, it got to the point that I had to manually keep the rpm up or the engine would completely die, the FI light was coming on and when I checked the flash code it said there was a problem with the air temp sensor and the air pressure sensor, the bike is kind of now doing the same thing but the FI light is remaining off so I ordered the two sensors anyway and replaced them today but it's still doing the same thing!

Anyone got any ideas what might be causing this? I feel like I've almost rebuilt the whole damn bike bar the engine!
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