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Most Unreliable Japanese Bike?

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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 11:15 - 24 Mar 2023    Post subject: Most Unreliable Japanese Bike? Reply with quote

Does one exist? / Has one existed since the 90s?

Just curious if you old dudes could shed some light onto whether an inherently unreliable (i.e. not from abuse or lack of maintenance) bike has ever come out of Japan since the 90s?

I think probably excluding 2-strokes, as that's pretty much a given!
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Prawny
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PostPosted: 12:04 - 24 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

My ER6n was a pup. But to be fair I bought it in good faith from a riding school and it turned out they were exaggerating how well looked after it was. I was also a bit impatient to get a proper bike once I’d passed my test and wasn’t as picky as I should have been.

Coils were notorious for splitting and plugs seizing in, which mine had. When it got wet it wouldn’t start.
Finally it just died riding to work one morning, it’s back on the road now looking at MOT check, but god knows what it cost to fix, I pxd it for the meteor and the dealer gave it to a mate rather than sink his own money into it.

I’ve heard that these are normally solid so take mine as a classic example of buyer beware because there’s crap examples or nearly everything about.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:44 - 24 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Other than the afore mentioned strokers (and then really only because they were abused in every sense) the most unreliable Japanese bike I have owned was a Suzuki GT500. It wasn't the engine, it was the electrics and bad design like the kill switch was a rocker switch so every time it rained heavily water would get into the switch and short it out. Brakes were hopefull at best.

Hated that bike but if I had spent a bit of time and money I could have sorted out the problems. I didn't. I sold it and bought a brand new Z650. Chalk and cheese. I so loved that bike. Wub

I never had one so this is anecdotal. A salesman in a big dealership I used to frequent in Newcastle told me they had sold a couple of RE5 wankel bikes and they had been back time after time for faults but then I suppose it was future technology back then.
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 12:49 - 24 Mar 2023    Post subject: Re: Most Unreliable Japanese Bike? Reply with quote

DUCAUDI wrote:
Does one exist? / Has one existed since the 90s?

Just curious if you old dudes could shed some light onto whether an inherently unreliable (i.e. not from abuse or lack of maintenance) bike has ever come out of Japan since the 90s?

I think probably excluding 2-strokes, as that's pretty much a given!
The Germans have taken over the manufacture of unreliable bikes. That's why I love the UKGSer website, a constant list of non starts, flat batteries, seized/broken shaft drives, non working ring antennas, broken fuel gauges, forks falling off, wheels coming apart at speed and fear of the warranty period ending.

Occasionally some bloke with a high mileage bike which has been faultless will ruin my day, so I push on to the next post of sadness to cheer myself up again.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:40 - 24 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the CBF125s were pretty shonky at one point.

Despite being beautifully engineered in almost every respect, you could say all the 90's VFRs were unreliable as standard due to them attempting to heat-sink an un-finned reg/rec to an alloy frame that gets too hot to touch. It was a matter of when, not if it would leave you at the side of the road with a flat battery. Change it for a finned reg/rec or a mosfet off a different bike and either stand it away from the frame or move it somewhere else entirely and problem solved.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 24 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

I expect it'd mainly be small bikes when production switched to Brazil, Thailand, etc.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 16:00 - 24 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

The CBF1000 has a terrible reputation for eating stators, and I think they are Japanese built too...
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Tierbirdy
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PostPosted: 16:31 - 24 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still triggered forever by my Bandit 1200 that bogged down and ran on 3 cylinders every time it got wet, even slight drizzle was enough to cause issues, and the wetter it got the more power it lost until it died and wouldnt start again til totally dry.

Apparently a common issue in these bikes, due to the poor design of spark plug drainage holes.

Only Japanese bike Ive ever had thats had any kind of issue, I've had multiple Hondas and Yamahas and theyve never had an issue.

Though I am saying that cautiously, knowing my current FZ1 potentially has the hand grenade for a rotor that could explode and kill the engine at any moment Shocked That'll be getting changed for an upgraded one before the riding season starts properly!
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 24 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
90's VFRs ...reg/rec


Wasn't just confined to VFR's with Honda either. Some CBR600s had similar, and other models. Perhaps Honda were trying to adopt some Italian 'character' with electrical gremlins! I think most were replaced under warranty, don't recall if the 'fix' worked, if there was one, or if they just replaced like with like. I would imagine the replacement reg/rec would have had an upgrade. Early Triumph Street Triples had a reg/rec overheating problem too, location was changed, but again, don't know if they upgraded the part too.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:53 - 24 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
90's VFRs ...reg/rec


Wasn't just confined to VFR's with Honda either. Some CBR600s had similar, and other models. Perhaps Honda were trying to adopt some Italian 'character' with electrical gremlins! I think most were replaced under warranty, don't recall if the 'fix' worked, if there was one, or if they just replaced like with like. I would imagine the replacement reg/rec would have had an upgrade. Early Triumph Street Triples had a reg/rec overheating problem too, location was changed, but again, don't know if they upgraded the part too.


The first year of single side swingarm VFR750s were particularly bad. The following year had vent slots in the side cover, presumably to increase airflow. I don't think they'd quite realised how hot the alloy frames get after a prolonged thrashing and the reg/recs were bolted directly to them. Later CBR6 ones had cooling vanes and were attached to a little bracket which stood them away from the frame. I put one of those on my VFR and never had another problem with it.

Speaking of unreliable early 90's bikes. 1st gen GPZ500s had a hand-grenade alternator rotor. Dodgy glue on the magnets would eventually fail and the magnet would come off at high rev speeds causing absolute carnage. Smashed stators, pickup coils and magnetic shrapnel in the oil. You couldn't just fit a 2nd gen one either due to one having a wasted spark and the other not. Electrex still stock replacement rotor upgrades.
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 17:18 - 24 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tierbirdy wrote:
Still triggered forever by my Bandit 1200 that bogged down and ran on 3 cylinders every time it got wet, even slight drizzle was enough to cause issues, and the wetter it got the more power it lost until it died and wouldnt start again til totally dry.

Apparently a common issue in these bikes, due to the poor design of spark plug drainage holes.



GSXR1100 has the same head casting and I've never had a single misfire even in monsoon conditions. As long as you use the OEM plug caps and rubbers and the drain holes aren't blocked there isn't an issue.
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 24 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had two Yamaha XS250’s , and neither of them ever inspired reliability.
I don’t think I ever went further than 30 miles with them at any one time.
They had a terrible habit of suddenly only firing on one cylinder Evil or Very Mad .

I also had an XS400.
It wasn’t quite as bad as the 250’s , but it was still a temperamental donkey..


I wouldn’t EVER have another one , even if it was selling for 50p!
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 20:14 - 24 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah but they were pre-war - op's on about post '90s
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 20:40 - 24 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

redeem ouzzer wrote:
Tierbirdy wrote:
Still triggered forever by my Bandit 1200 that bogged down and ran on 3 cylinders every time it got wet, even slight drizzle was enough to cause issues, and the wetter it got the more power it lost until it died and wouldnt start again til totally dry.

Apparently a common issue in these bikes, due to the poor design of spark plug drainage holes.



GSXR1100 has the same head casting and I've never had a single misfire even in monsoon conditions. As long as you use the OEM plug caps and rubbers and the drain holes aren't blocked there isn't an issue.


I've had two Bandits that did the same thing and the holes weren't blocked. One because so chronic I had to jusk the coils and leads and fitted GSXR stick coils.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 24 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every single Honda that I have ever bought (used) required a new stator sooner or later. Otherwise, pretty reliable motorcycles.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 14:58 - 25 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

1998 GSX600F. Left me stranded a few times. It got fucked off to a breaker after the OH had to help me push it home, uphill.
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Tierbirdy
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 25 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

redeem ouzzer wrote:
Tierbirdy wrote:
Still triggered forever by my Bandit 1200 that bogged down and ran on 3 cylinders every time it got wet, even slight drizzle was enough to cause issues, and the wetter it got the more power it lost until it died and wouldnt start again til totally dry.

Apparently a common issue in these bikes, due to the poor design of spark plug drainage holes.



GSXR1100 has the same head casting and I've never had a single misfire even in monsoon conditions. As long as you use the OEM plug caps and rubbers and the drain holes aren't blocked there isn't an issue.


And therein lies the problem, when youre buying a second hand bike, unaware of these problems, and the previous owner lost the plug covers 10 years ago and never bothered replacing them because they figured they werent needed (like any DIY job ending up with leftover nuts after putting it back together), the drainage holes get blocked with limescale and other crap which will never shift and muggins down the line has to deal with. Sick That bike made me so angry when I got stranded at the side of the M25 in a monsoon that I swore Id never buy a second hand bike again because previous owners are all lying bastards who cant be trusted not to fuck about with splicing things into wiring or trying their hand at "servicing" the bike. Sold it the next day and bought a brand new MT09 Razz
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grr666
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PostPosted: 15:09 - 25 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tierbirdy wrote:
...because previous owners are all lying bastards who cant be trusted not to fuck about with splicing things into wiring or trying their hand at "servicing" the bike.

I'll mildly modify or repair a bike with bolt on stuff, but that's where it ends for me. Mechanic or main dealer does the rest.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 15:26 - 25 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

So not intrinsically unreliable but shite maintenence, then?
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grr666
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PostPosted: 01:09 - 26 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
So not intrinsically unreliable but shite maintenence, then?

I've found Bristol Bike doc to be very reasonably priced labour wise, fairly quick to get you on the ramp,
walking distance local to my house which is handy, since I'd have to pay for a couple of taxis or a courtesy bike if
using Fowlers and they have much better labour prices. Happy with the few little jobs they've done for me so far.

To be fair to Fowlers they never charged me for courtesy bike last time I was in there, and because I had to put a
fivers worth of fuel in their courtesy bike (because it was given to me with fumes in the tank) to get home they
brimmed my almost empty MT10 in the workshop and gave me some discount on the first service too.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 11:43 - 26 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tierbirdy wrote:
I swore Id never buy a second hand bike again because previous owners are all lying bastards who cant be trusted not to fuck about with splicing things into wiring or trying their hand at "servicing" the bike. Sold it the next day and bought a brand new MT09 Razz


Well I bought a brand new bike and after about 18 months, it died at the side of the road in the dark on New Years Eve. Had to get it towed to my brothers house and spent all new years day trying to work out what was wrong with it. Eventually found the dealer had cut a wire going to the CDI, presumably with the intention of wiring it through the immobaliser I'd asked them to fit. They'd then decided against it, twisted the ends together and taped over it.
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virus
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PostPosted: 20:18 - 26 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a few oil cooled suzukis of that vintage now and had no problems if the drain port is clean. Had one blocked on my teapot 6 that caused it to run on 3 in the wet but easily resolved. Id put Tierbirdys experience down to bad maintenance rather than an intrinsic fault.

Early gpz5 hand grenade alternators and most early 90s honda 'wait and see' Reg/Recs were deffo a manufacturing issue though.

Early Kwak 750 ninja (h1/2 or so) alternators were a load of shite too thanks to a non toothed type drive belt in a shite location with barely any tension adjustment.
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Tyke_
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PostPosted: 12:23 - 27 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

every jap bike i've owned that had been looked after has been reliable, i've had unreliable jap bikes that hadn't been looked after. i have an italian bike now it's been reliable and it appears to have been cared for previously.
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Rob W
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PostPosted: 13:21 - 27 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

virus wrote:

Early Kwak 750 ninja (h1/2 or so) alternators were a load of shite too thanks to a non toothed type drive belt in a shite location with barely any tension adjustment.


I forgot all about those, my H1 was an absolute shit. Ended up with a direct line to Cradley Kawasaki it went that often.

Was actually grateful when I got U-turned in front of, as it gave me the opportunity to get rid.
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 15:20 - 27 Mar 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
I never had one so this is anecdotal. A salesman in a big dealership I used to frequent in Newcastle told me they had sold a couple of RE5 wankel bikes and they had been back time after time for faults but then I suppose it was future technology back then.


Wankel engines, yeah I can see that being an issue!



stinkwheel wrote:
Eventually found the dealer had cut a wire going to the CDI, presumably with the intention of wiring it through the immobaliser I'd asked them to fit. They'd then decided against it, twisted the ends together and taped over it.


This sort of practice ought to carry the death penalty! I'm no mechanic or auto electrician but I can't abide twisting cables and taping over them. Even scotchloks and crimp connectors, while probably ok inside a car, definitely a no-no on a motorcycle or on a car where it's going to be exposed to the elements. Any ape can use a fecking soldering iron! There's just no need for it. And from a main dealer, too? Outrageous!
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