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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 23:27 - 23 Apr 2023    Post subject: A2 bikes, top picks Reply with quote
So Honda have churned out another bike based on their 471cc parallel twin in the guise of the CL500 which is basically the Rebel 500 with different subframe. The Rebel USP was being one of the few A2 cruisers and AFAIK did a bit better than ppl expected but do we really need to get the cookie cutter and stamp out yet another street scrambler? <yawn>

Obviously I'd have a soft spot for the Rebel but I don't believe I've ever suggested the engine was any more than adequate. Anyhoo, I'm curious as to what people would pick if limited to A2? I'm currently leaning toward the KTM 390 / Husqvarna 401...
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 00:01 - 24 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Me now, probably one of the Royal Enfield 650s.

Me at 17? An SZR660... Actually, wouldn't mind one now.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 01:20 - 24 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
Me now, probably one of the Royal Enfield 650s.

Me at 17? An SZR660... Actually, wouldn't mind one now.


That Yamaha looks to be a cheeky little number Smile

The main thing that puts me off the recent REs is the woeful power to weight ratio - 'A' wet weight but 'A2' power. The aforementioned CL500 is 10 kilos lighter for the same power and Duke 390 ~40 kilos lighter for just a touch less power.
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P.
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PostPosted: 12:26 - 24 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
Me at 17? An SZR660... Actually, wouldn't mind one now.


I'd love one of those, few and far between around though. There is one on ebay but it looks terrible Crying or Very sad
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arry
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 24 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:

The main thing that puts me off the recent REs is the woeful power to weight ratio - 'A' wet weight but 'A2' power. The aforementioned CL500 is 10 kilos lighter for the same power and Duke 390 ~40 kilos lighter for just a touch less power.


We don't tend to ride bikes on-paper, though.

There's far more to be learned by riding than going by the specs, as I'm sure you know. The Interceptor is a really nice bike to ride - and doesn't feel massively underpowered if you're riding it like you should ride a modern retro, rather than a race-rep.

Personally, on an A2 I'd just get the best bike that's the most fun to ride and ignore the performance, except to the extent where it makes the bike impractical (eg can't hold 70mph for prolonged periods).
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 13:49 - 24 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
In my humble opinion, the KTM Duke 390 is the best A2 bike (that doesn't need restricted) out there for pretty much anything:

1. Throw nobbies on it and you've got a scrambler,
2. Throw panniers on it and you've got a tourer,
3. Throw nothing on it and you've got a commuter,
4. Throw nothing on it and you've got a flickable wee smile machine on the twisties.

Best in class. 100%.

My next favourite would be the Honda CB500X.

If you bring restricted bikes into it then fuck it becomes hard to pick between the Suzuki SV650 and the Yamaha MT-07 because they're a lot like the Duke 390 in that they are so fucking versatile and can fill almost any role.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 14:05 - 24 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
Throw nobbies on it


Shocked
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Robby
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 24 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Me right now? Guzzi V7 racer. The racer has no additional performance compared to the other models, just a nice paint job and red frame.

Or possible one of the A2 models of Zero, but they're still too expensive and limited even for me, and I will pay a significant premium just to be electric.

Me at 17? Probably a Duke 390. A cheap, fucked one with many previous owners. I'd ignore the warnings about lack of reliability and convince myself it was the quickest A2 bike. Then repeatedly crash it.

Or secret option number 14, a Honda CB250RS. I say that because I did buy one at 17, and I still have one now. I've consistently owned at least one at a time for the majority of my riding life. Hardly ever ride it, but there's always something to tinker with.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 17:42 - 24 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
crm250 if they're kosher or xt660r
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 18:47 - 24 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
New: CRF450. That one would give you some fun times and would stick around until it's legislated out of existence.
Old: just about anything that I find interesting. My last 2 project bikes would both be classed as A2 if they were still available today. Small-to-mid-sized bikes aren't ideal for long distance travel but at least they're not too cumbersome to work on.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 23:03 - 24 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
Easy-X wrote:

The main thing that puts me off the recent REs is the woeful power to weight ratio - 'A' wet weight but 'A2' power. The aforementioned CL500 is 10 kilos lighter for the same power and Duke 390 ~40 kilos lighter for just a touch less power.


We don't tend to ride bikes on-paper, though.

There's far more to be learned by riding than going by the specs, as I'm sure you know. The Interceptor is a really nice bike to ride - and doesn't feel massively underpowered if you're riding it like you should ride a modern retro, rather than a race-rep.

Personally, on an A2 I'd just get the best bike that's the most fun to ride and ignore the performance, except to the extent where it makes the bike impractical (eg can't hold 70mph for prolonged periods).


For a similar weight my XSR brazenly urinates upon an Interceptor in terms of performance. I think I'd feel a bit cheated wrestling the latter out my front garden even though I rarely use even 80% of the power of the former. It's a comfort to know there's plenty I have left to explore in the CP2 engine.

I see my father-in-law struggling and muttering about his Breakout as he manoeuvres it round the garage but the perversity of the thing out on the road I assume more than makes up for such a shortcoming.

For a contemporary bike I'd hazard any supermoto would be an absolute gas but they seem like such a neodymium magnet for scrotes they go beyond the practicalities of everyday riding.
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arry
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PostPosted: 06:38 - 26 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
arry wrote:

We don't tend to ride bikes on-paper, though.


For a similar weight my XSR brazenly urinates upon an Interceptor in terms of performance. I think I'd feel a bit cheated wrestling the latter out my front garden even though I rarely use even 80% of the power of the former. It's a comfort to know there's plenty I have left to explore in the CP2 engine.


Of course, but then the same argument could be made that you should have bought an R6 as it's the same weight as your XSR but with an extra ~30 horsepower. Unless, of course, you're limited to A2.

If you're only using 80% of your XSR's capability 95% of the time then in reality you'd be better off with something you'd be wringing the neck of more of the time, as it's inevitably more fun?

My point is - in most scenarios - we don't ride bikes to the on-paper specifications. Classic case in points in my biking life:
Arrow Sprint ST1050 - should be a great sports tourer, turns out sucked at both disciplines.
Arrow KTM 990 - 'only' had 110bhp, but crap fuelling and throttle mapping meant the delivery was so utterly bonkers that it was like riding something much, much more demanding.
Arrow R NineT at 230kg was well outside of my comfort zone for weight following my spinal injury, but it holds its weight so low down in the frame it's a doddle to move around - I'd have dismissed it on paper but in reality it's nearly my perfect bike.
Arrow Enfield should be a slow doddery POS, and it is...... but I actually adore it for that. It's given me a whole new perspective on biking I'd never have had, if I hadn't just gone swung my leg over it and found out for myself.

Quote:
For a contemporary bike I'd hazard any supermoto would be an absolute gas but they seem like such a neodymium magnet for scrotes they go beyond the practicalities of everyday riding.


They're a gas if you want to send-it all day, and a PITA if you just want to get home on a cold wet day where you're tired and not really that sharp.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 07:33 - 26 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thing is. I'd happily tour Europe on one of the REs. I wouldn't fancy it on a supermoto (although I'm sure it's possible).
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 10:27 - 26 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
Thing is. I'd happily tour Europe on one of the REs. I wouldn't fancy it on a supermoto (although I'm sure it's possible).


In the same way that "anything can be a dildo if you're brave enough":

Any bike can be a tourer if you're brave enough Laughing
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 10:38 - 26 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:


In the same way that "anything can be a dildo if you're brave enough"



https://www.bikechatforums.com/download.php?id=105191
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Last edited by Nobby the Bastard on 15:32 - 26 Apr 2023; edited 2 times in total
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P.
Red Rocket



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PostPosted: 14:21 - 26 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
Thing is. I'd happily tour Europe on one of the REs. I wouldn't fancy it on a supermoto (although I'm sure it's possible).


I got a Duke 690 R and I won't lie, if you were to do any distance over 40-50 miles, you'd be vibrated out of your skin. Imagine a smaller seat and more vibes would destroy me Laughing
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A100man
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PostPosted: 15:07 - 26 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:

In the same way that "anything can be a dildo if you're brave enough":


Dear Lord!

I sometimes wonder if we inhabit the same world..

..probably not. Eh?
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 16:51 - 26 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
A100man wrote:
Dear Lord!

I sometimes wonder if we inhabit the same world..

..probably not. Eh?


You need to loosen up and live a little more mate Wink
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 23:42 - 26 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
If you're only using 80% of your XSR's capability 95% of the time then in reality you'd be better off with something you'd be wringing the neck of more of the time, as it's inevitably more fun?


I know his name's a bit of a swear now but Yammie Noob always went with the even lower "ride most of the time at 60%." For instance the MT07 et al does very nicely sitting at 70mph with plenty of overhead for "oh shit" moments. Top speed ~130mph (apparently, I won't know Shifty ) 60% = 78mph. Nice Thumbs Up I can definite tell you WOT on a 125 going down the A3 was very little fun which would be the other extreme.

I find the aesthetic of, for example, the RE Meteor extremely appealing. Call it spec sheet autism but I think I'll be slightly less disappointed about the power output if/when they brought out a 500 version. They're probably scratching their heads right now on how to fit the Himalayan/Scram engine in there Smile Same again with the Super Meteor, absolutely begging for a 900cc engine to totally eat the Bonneville's lunch. Even so I'd definitely tip my hat to RE for their imagination versus the rest of the market.

Anyhoo, I suppose it boils down to noticing lots of bikes of roughly the same shape, size and weight with wildly different power outputs. I'm curious on the outliers where someone's made something particularly efficient Thinking
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 08:00 - 27 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm waiting for a bolt-on supercharger kit to come out for them, they are doing fun things withthose motors in the grasstracking scene.

Of course, any more poke and they are no longer an A2 bike...
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Prawny
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PostPosted: 15:23 - 27 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
With the weather this week I’ve bloody loved my meteor. It’s faster than my car (to about 50mph anyway) and it’s stupidly comfortable.

But, when it’s wet, or I’m in a rush, or stuck behind someone doing 48 in a 60, or it’s dark, or on the motorway. It’s a bit shit.

Cheap though.

I don’t think the scram/himmi engine is any better, I’m waiting to see what the 450 liquid cooled Himalayan is like before I do anything else.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:24 - 29 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's like RE are reading this thread...

Royal Enfield 450cc roadster spied; to rival KTM 390 Duke

tl;dr the new 450cc engine intended for the Himalayan going into some more bikes Smile
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Prawny
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PostPosted: 17:53 - 29 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sign me up, think the new Himalayan will still be my ideal commuter.
That’s as long as it’s still significantly cheaper than a 390 Adventure or Duke
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 21:47 - 29 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
They shoudl just build an adventure bike with the 650 twin motor.

What's that? A massively overwieght adventure bike with a totally inappropriate engine configuration will never sell?
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CarlW12
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PostPosted: 23:48 - 13 Jun 2023    Post subject: Re: A2 bikes, top picks Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
So Honda have churned out another bike based on their 471cc parallel twin in the guise of the CL500 which is basically the Rebel 500 with different subframe. The Rebel USP was being one of the few A2 cruisers and AFAIK did a bit better than ppl expected but do we really need to get the cookie cutter and stamp out yet another street scrambler? <yawn>

Obviously I'd have a soft spot for the Rebel but I don't believe I've ever suggested the engine was any more than adequate. Anyhoo, I'm curious as to what people would pick if limited to A2? I'm currently leaning toward the KTM 390 / Husqvarna 401...


I’m currently on A2 have been for 3-4 years now. My current choice is the Ninja 250, it’s a brilliant bike for what it is. I did consider newer options but my budget was limited and I wanted a light parallel twin i could have fun on in the twisties. I picked mine up for less than £1300 with 12k on the clock, they are a good used buy IMO if your after something similar.

Bigger budget though, I’d agree the RC390 looks decent. The Z400 also looks a good bike Thumbs Up
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