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Cure for Covid vaccines?

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Easy-X
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Joined: 08 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: 13:18 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
The reaction to even asking about the vaccine is so much more interesting than an answer to the original thread question...

https://j.gifs.com/mQrgWR@facebook.gif
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 13:51 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
The reaction to even asking about the vaccine is so much more interesting than an answer to the original thread question...

https://j.gifs.com/mQrgWR@facebook.gif


People answered in a form disputing the premise of the question because by directly answering the question you posed, it would be accepting your presupposition.

It would be like me asking where and when everybody on the forum should give me a £100 note for being so awesome. Then being shirty about my question not being answered when people reply saying I'm not awesome and they aren't giving me £100.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
People answered in a form disputing the premise of the question because by directly answering the question you posed, it would be accepting your presupposition.


This much has become apparent but the level of vigour is revealing. I shall have to look into how a philosopher would classify the logic (or lack thereof) in reversing the problem/solution pairing Thinking
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 18:15 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
People answered in a form disputing the premise of the question because by directly answering the question you posed, it would be accepting your presupposition.


This much has become apparent but the level of vigour is revealing. I shall have to look into how a philosopher would classify the logic (or lack thereof) in reversing the problem/solution pairing Thinking


If your understanding of philosophy is on the same level as your understanding of science, that could take quite a bit of time...
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:20 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here's an example:

Tips on how to save energy at home and help the planet

If the title was simply "Tips on how to save energy at home" well! who doesn't want to save a few quid? But if that's not enough incentive the author thought it necessary to add some dramitas Wink

Quote:
It is widely accepted the UK needs to revamp its ageing and draughty housing if it is to reach its climate targets.


Is it now... it's all a fait accompli apparently Rolling Eyes
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:27 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
If your understanding of philosophy is on the same level as your understanding of science, that could take quite a bit of time...


That I don't know precisely (to a PhD level) how mRNA vaccines work? Surely that'd be a big ask for anyone!

On that, did we ever get an answer to how many large scale, long term studies had been done on mRNA vaccines prior to Covid?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:27 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Do you automatically dispute science stuff that you really know nothing about because you are stupid, argumentative, or just like being contrary?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:41 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Do you automatically dispute science stuff that you really know nothing about because you are stupid, argumentative, or just like being contrary?


Touché! To answer that would be to agree with your presuppositions Wink
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:57 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
That I don't know precisely (to a PhD level) how mRNA vaccines work? Surely that'd be a big ask for anyone!

On that, did we ever get an answer to how many large scale, long term studies had been done on mRNA vaccines prior to Covid?


You’ve just admitted you have no expertise in this so your question presupposes ‘big number good!’
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:20 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
SophR so good actually does have a PhD in a related subject and is more than knowledgable on vaccines and viruses but, and it's a big but, she stopped doing a lot of social media because she got fed up of being barracked by people who had absolutely no knowledge on the subject who kept saying it was a grand scheme to control people and there was no virus.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 19:26 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
That I don't know precisely (to a PhD level) how mRNA vaccines work? Surely that'd be a big ask for anyone!

On that, did we ever get an answer to how many large scale, long term studies had been done on mRNA vaccines prior to Covid?


There is a wide gulf between PhD level and your understanding.

I can tell you how mRNA vaccines work, because I know what mRNA is. mRNA is just a chain of amino acids that are already present in our bodies, and we create our own strands of mRNA in order to replicate cells. When the mRNA has done it's job, it is broken down.

The mRNA strand in the vaccine is not in any way human, nor complete, nor in a position to be involved in cell replication. All it is there for is to generate very very short strands of DNA (which is created by your own body) and then your immune system will register that DNA as foreign and attack it. On attacking it, the immune system learns and eventually is able to destroy it with the correctly produced antibody. Then, when you are exposed to Covid, one of the strands of DNA on the Covid virus is recognised by your immune system and it deploys those antibodies to bind to the covid virus. This swamps all instances of the virus, and prevents it from attacking and replicating within your own body.

So, what the vaccine does is train your own body to attack the Covid virus by using a very short harmless segment of what is effectively meaningless DNA (it's not even a whole strand of DNA, let alone a chromosome or anything). The reason you feel unwell after having the vaccine, is purely through the immune response that it triggers. The worse you are, the stronger the immune response.

I did study scientific subjects at University, but I am not a biologist. However, it is within my own capability to understand this stuff to a reasonable level. A lot of my knowledge of this was taught in GCSE science... There's a certain irony to the fact that the people who are telling us to 'Wake up' are the ones who clearly slept through science class.

The blood clots were not caused by an mRNA vaccine, but by a dormant virus version of the vaccine, which managed to cause coalescing and coagulation of white blood cells in the body, which get bigger and bigger until they are a damaging clot. mRNA vaccines by their very nature work on a much smaller level, not necessitating white blood cell attacks, and therefore could not even theoretically cause those blood clots. In fact, I'd say I'm aware of no theoretical method in which the mRNA vaccine can cause long term harm. The more likely cause in that case would be some sort of substrate in which the mRNA is suspended, but seeing as we've had countless vaccines made over the years with no harmful results, I assume scientists can make a suitable solution without poisoning a person. It's literally the easiest bit of making a vaccine.

I should return to one point here, once your body is trained to attack the virus, the only way to reverse that process is to destroy your entire immune system and start again, which means total body radiation treatment, and then hope you can find a suitable bone marrow donor.

Maybe you should have studied more science instead of pretending to study philosophy.
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Last edited by MarJay on 19:34 - 25 May 2023; edited 1 time in total
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 19:30 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
On that, did we ever get an answer to how many large scale, long term studies had been done on mRNA vaccines prior to Covid?

Well that's easy to find out.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+large+scale%2C+long+term+studies+had+been+done+on+mRNA+vaccines+prior+to+Covid

As you'll see, the first result is stuck behind a paywall so here it is without a paywall. https://archive.is/xgmnv
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 20:50 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
On that, did we ever get an answer to how many large scale, long term studies had been done on mRNA vaccines prior to Covid?

Well that's easy to find out.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+large+scale%2C+long+term+studies+had+been+done+on+mRNA+vaccines+prior+to+Covid

As you'll see, the first result is stuck behind a paywall so here it is without a paywall. https://archive.is/xgmnv


ste for mod!
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
There is a wide gulf between PhD level and your understanding.
...
Maybe you should have studied more science instead of pretending to study philosophy.


I'm curious as to why you think it necessary to bracket incredibly useful information in such a manner.
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Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
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PostPosted: 21:40 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:


I'm curious as to why you think it necessary to bracket incredibly useful information in such a manner.


Probably because you're being a cunt, a moron or a troll. Possible a combination of all three. People are still being civil to try and walk you back from the edge of going full conspiracy-theorist. In a page or so, people will stop being civil and just ignore you. Maybe wind you up for sport, or push you over the edge so you get arrested protesting outside an abortion clinic.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:47 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Do you automatically dispute science stuff that you really know nothing about because you are stupid, argumentative, or just like being contrary?

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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 22:31 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:


I'm curious as to why you think it necessary to bracket incredibly useful information in such a manner.


Err... because you asked for a 'cure' for your own immune system?

C'mon, I've given you far more latitude than any other poster in this thread. Don't make me feel like I wasted my time.

It's also worth noting that there IS a wide gulf between PHD level and your understanding. There is a reasonably wide gulf between PHD level and MY understanding, however I do read and I did listen at school, and do have a habit of retaining information. I'm also told I'm decent at explaining complicated concepts to people of varying abilities.

With regard to my dig about Science vs Philosophy. I was restrained. I never once used the word dolt, or the phrases smooth brained or conspiracy nutter.
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Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

Last edited by MarJay on 22:36 - 25 May 2023; edited 1 time in total
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:36 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Robby wrote:
Probably because you're being a cunt, a moron or a troll. Possible a combination of all three. People are still being civil...


Oh the irony of those sentences together.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 22:37 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Oh the irony of those sentences together.


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We've gone easy on you. Trust me.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:54 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
Err... because you asked for a 'cure' for your own immune system?


No, that's not exactly what I asked, that's what you redefined my question to be although half the battle in getting the right answers is asking the right questions!

On that, would I be right in saying "reactions" (e.g. something immediate like anaphylactic shock) is just down to the substrate of a vaccine rather than it's active component?
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 23:42 - 25 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:


On that, would I be right in saying "reactions" (e.g. something immediate like anaphylactic shock) is just down to the substrate of a vaccine rather than it's active component?


It can be due to any componant of the vaccine which is capable of instigating an immune response AND which the body has encountered before and become sensitised to. You can't have a type 1 hypersensetivity reaction (anaphylaxis) to an antigen you haven't already encountered. So yes, more commonly one of the substrates. A common one used to be traces of egg yolk used in older vaccine manufacture which was a problem with the older monovalent measels vaccines. Latex in the syringe seal was another one but most syringes are latex free these days.

If you have a delayed hypersensetivity reaction to a vaccine, you would need to be very cautious before having the same vaccine again.

The really fun ones are allergy vaccines where you deliberately innoculate the patient with something you know they are allergic to.
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UncleFester
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PostPosted: 06:16 - 26 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:

The really fun ones are allergy vaccines where you deliberately innoculate the patient with something you know they are allergic to.


In this case, common sense it would seem.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:11 - 26 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
Latex in the syringe seal was another one...


Wow! Really?! I mean I know there are nitrile gloves for latex allergies but that's wrapping your whole hand. How much latex would get into your blood stream from a seal, can we count it in molecules? Shocked
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 14:02 - 26 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
Latex in the syringe seal was another one...


Wow! Really?! I mean I know there are nitrile gloves for latex allergies but that's wrapping your whole hand. How much latex would get into your blood stream from a seal, can we count it in molecules? Shocked


A foreign molecule is a foreign molecule. If it wasn't you couldn't teach your body to attack DNA. The thing with an allergy is, it's an autoimmune problem where the substance in question triggers your immune system to attack EVERYTHING and so it doesn't take a great deal of something to trigger that on some occasions.
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 14:06 - 26 May 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
UncleFester wrote:

In this case, common sense it would seem.


There are allergies you can treat by introducing small quantities of the allergen to the patient. The trick is to get the quantity right.
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