Concerns: Widening Yamaha Tricity/Niken for car license?(EU)

[Pieter88]

Hello guys,

I had a specific question that might not be the most favorable amongst bike riders but I still think this forum has the best chance to get a specific answer and maybe some other usefull information.

Reason for this question has everything to do with EU regulations;
EU regulations define that a three wheeled motorcycle with a thread width of 460 mm or more is in fact considered a three wheeled motorverhicle. This means that due to a loop in legislation you can ride these vehicles on a car license as long as your car license is from before 2013. The Piaggio Mp3 is a good example of such a vehicle.

And is has something to do you with Yamaha’s engineering;
Last few years Yamaha came with two different three wheeled motrocycles, a very economic and light motorscooter which is the Yamaha Tricity 125/155 and more of a real motorcycle which is the Yamaha Niken. Now Yamaha choose to develop both vehicles from a technical standpoint rather then EU legislation. Which means both these vehicles have a thread width that is smaller then the 460 mm needed to drive this with a car license.

Actually the thread width of the Tricity is 385 mm, 75 mm too small and the Niken is 410 mm, which is 50 mm too small

Now the question is, can you technically widen the track width?
Because I now car tuners do actually lower and widen their cars sometimes, mostly they use spacers. I even saw some forum where Quad drivers use spacers to widen the track width of their Quads. However regarding motorcycles there is very little information. I find some local legislation limiting the maximum amount you can widen your car, but it all seems to differ per country and targeted at cars. There is very little to no information to be found about widening the track width of a Tricycle like the Piaggio MP3/Tricity or Niken. So there are two subquestions;

1) Can you legally widen the track width of your tricycle, if so how much is the maximum? I cannot find any information about this.

2) Can you technically widen the track width of your tricycle, then there are two option; use spacers – but I am pretty sure these aren’t available and should be custom made. Or can you use custom rims that have a more deep mounting system that expands outside of the tyres. Again the wheel size and mounting system on these tricycles is very specific so I am doubting there will be any products on the shelve suitalbe (but You never now)

Also there is ofcourse the matter of safety and riding comfort. Will widening the track with a few centimers have any huge impact on drivability?

So can someone say something usefull about this?

[Easy-X]

Dicking with the geometry of a Niken?! No thanks Don't care know about the scooter though
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Bhud]

With a Niken, I doubt that would be possible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3x3rEcfAgk

I don't know if it would be safe to add spacers to the front wheels of a Tricity.

How about doing it the old-school way instead, and converting a motorcycle to a tricycle with a long rear axle between the 2 rear tyres?

[Pieter88]

[stinkwheel]

You should just buy a can-am and be done with it.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[kgm]

[WD Forte]

I'm assuming your thinking better stability?
Can the wheels be spaced wider?
Yes if money's no object we can start tomorrow

Cost benefit though.
Let's say someone made you a kit to push the Tricity wheels out
37.5mm each to the overall legal 460mm limit
It would cost plenty and what would the benefit be?
75mm/3" wider overall
more stable? dunno, maybe, perhaps, slightly mebbe

You would lose any warranty
Yamaha won't touch it, if it was good idea why didn't they do it?
Insurance too quite likely
MOT guy may tell you to sod off
DVSA may burn you as a witch
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bikers smell of wee

[Pieter88]

[Teflon-Mike]

[Pieter88]

[A100man]

Getting a proper bike licence and the required training will make you a better rider and offers scope to buy other motorcycles.. I see the loop-hole you're aiming for but really, this is false economy at quite a few levels., and this advice comes from someone who's tighter than the proverbial 'gnat's..'
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Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600

[Teflon-Mike]

[Pieter88]

[WD Forte]

There's woman near me rides a Tricity cos she has bad legs and
I can see how it offers her some cheap-ish transport.
If disability isn't the issue I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole
nor a Niken.
I can appreciate the nifty engineering but they're overly complex
and lack the flexibiltiy of a 2 wheeler.
that's why they're a niche scooter.

When out of warranty and all the linkage starts to wear, they'll be
an expensive bitch to maintain and if you damage that front end
it could cost a fortune to put right.
Yamaha spares are pretty expensive, I can buy an axle set of
disc pads for my car cheaper then a set for a mates YBR125
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bikers smell of wee

[Teflon-Mike]

[mentalboy]

I'm going to hazard a guess that you hail from somewhere in the region of the Nederland, I'm not sure on EU regs but you have had some response regarding the UK stance.

Can you find out through Google, or whatever search engine you use, what your country's equivalent of the DVSA has in place for approving vehicle alterations - I'm going to assume that Holland will be fairly strict whereas Moldova probably doesn't care so long as you can get three sheep, a wife and six kids in it without the wheels falling off?
Same again for insurance issues, do Moldovans even have insurance?

Once we have an idea of the kind of governmental safety regime in your Euro country we can let you know whether three washers and a rubber band will pass muster or whether you'll need an engineer with a degree and ten years design experience!
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Make mine a Corona.

[MarJay]

If you modify either of these it won't be easier to sell and will cost more to do than your license.

Do your test, buy a hornet or something and be happy.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[davebike]

Tow bits not mentioned so far
1 to be K on a car licence it also has to have a FOOT operated rear brake
2 It will need to be re register as a different class I expect this to be an expensive bureaucratic mess Insurance would be fun as well

If you want a car licence three wheeler get one not one that need a bike licence and try to modify
____________________
Dave
NC750Xdct + others at work !
davebike1@gmail.com

[Riejufixing]

[A100man]

[A100man]

@ Pieter. I think you now realise you're not going to get the answer you hoped for on this forum. It is frequented by a bunch of crass, cynical, opinionated middle-aged bastards (mostly).

Just yesterday they lambasted my idea to build some custom exhausts and as a result I am a mournful, pitiful shell of a man.

In fact though they do have your best interests at heart and you could do worse than heed this advice..
____________________
Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600

[Ste]

Help us out, what country are you in?

[Sister Sledge]

[Riejufixing]

[Froggyboy]

There’s a really obvious modification here that might be possible

Switch the forks and wheels around so that the left ‘inside the forks wheel’ is now the ‘outside the forks right wheel’

Cables might need some trickery

Actually to be fair, although this is an up to date post, I did have this idea pre 2020, stability I can’t vouch for, haven’t tried it, if it worked I would maybe give it a go, no bike licence but I do have a 1998 car licence.