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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 23:25 - 01 Nov 2023    Post subject: Gun Cotton Reply with quote
In episode 435 of "I must have missed a meeting" Wink

The Von Lenk Guncotton Cartridge for the M1854 Lorenz

Gun cotton, nitrocellulose, is the same as the "flash paper" magicians use. I don't know how I wouldn't know you'd run guns with it. Somehow I assumed it just went Black Powder => Smokeless Powder Doh!

Anyhoo, the interesting thing is gun cotton cartridges are an example of a "caseless" ammunition as alluded to in the film Aliens Smile
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 00:38 - 02 Nov 2023    Post subject: Re: Gun Cotton Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:

Anyhoo, the interesting thing is gun cotton cartridges are an example of a "caseless" ammunition as alluded to in the film Aliens Smile


I think they were probably alluding to the HK G11 which was thought to be the next big thing in the late 80's. It was a compact, futuristic-looking assault rifle that used caseless propellant blocks in a 50 round mag with a weird rotary breech. It had a weird burst fire system that fired three rounds on target almost instantaneously with a single trigger pull (like three rounds in less than 1/10 of a second because they could ignore the extraction part of the cycle). Apparently worked well, it was dropped due to lack of ammunition standardisation.

https://youtu.be/QGKcvM2Hh4g?si=OeSYtNtfsQUC5t1r
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MCN
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PostPosted: 11:34 - 02 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
I thought Gun Cotton is a character in East Enders. (Never missed an episode)
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:45 - 02 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think the main problem with caseless is long term storage. Short term even the paper cartridges in the old Austrian rifle weren't too bad but imagine having boxes and boxes of the things Shocked

The other thing to consider is the traditional brass case has two active functions in a gun: sealing the breech and heat dissipation. Quickly ejecting spent rounds does draw some heat from the mechanisms - an effect not to be underestimated with automatic weapons.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:13 - 02 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:

The other thing to consider is the traditional brass case has two active functions in a gun: sealing the breech and heat dissipation. Quickly ejecting spent rounds does draw some heat from the mechanisms - an effect not to be underestimated with automatic weapons.


Equally, they retain less gas because they don't need to extract or eject anything, you just need enough gas to unlock the breach and feed the next propellant block. You're not slamming the breech block back into a buffer tube with gas pressure on every shot. More of the heat and energy goes out of the front of the barrel. I think the G11 was a mechanical delay rotating breach? Reminded me a bit of a Luger or pederson but with a reciprocating barrel.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 02 Nov 2023    Post subject: Re: Gun Cotton Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
In episode 435 of "I must have missed a meeting" Wink

The Von Lenk Guncotton Cartridge for the M1854 Lorenz

Gun cotton, nitrocellulose, is the same as the "flash paper" magicians use. I don't know how I wouldn't know you'd run guns with it. Somehow I assumed it just went Black Powder => Smokeless Powder Doh!

Anyhoo, the interesting thing is gun cotton cartridges are an example of a "caseless" ammunition as alluded to in the film Aliens Smile


Making nitrocellulose is super easy, we've did it before to teach kids visiting the lab the difference between deflagration and detonation. Probably illegal to synthesise it and nitro-glycerine but was always in tiny amounts for education purposes and always got a good reaction from the kids. Not done it for years and years now though because the world is much softer now and also because synthesising NG makes me sweat buckets as the reaction is exothermic and has the danger of runaway nitration and detonation which is a bastard when you're doing it in glassware as the idea of having glass shards shot through my bollocks puts me off doing it.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 14:17 - 02 Nov 2023    Post subject: Re: Gun Cotton Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:


Making nitrocellulose is super easy, we've did it before to teach kids visiting the lab the difference between deflagration and detonation. Probably illegal to synthesise it and nitro-glycerine but was always in tiny amounts for education purposes and always got a good reaction from the kids. Not done it for years and years now though because the world is much softer now and also because synthesising NG makes me sweat buckets as the reaction is exothermic and has the danger of runaway nitration and detonation which is a bastard when you're doing it in glassware as the idea of having glass shards shot through my bollocks puts me off doing it.


Tri-iodide was always my favourite and a bit less hazardous to synthesize until it was dry.

The whole NG thing always makes me wonder why they have all this nonsense about fluids on aeroplanes. You either need to allow them or not allow them. 100ml of NG is a lot, probably enough to blast off a days work in a quarry.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 16:33 - 02 Nov 2023    Post subject: Re: Gun Cotton Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
Tri-iodide was always my favourite and a bit less hazardous to synthesize until it was dry.

That takes me back.. ... at school there was a kid who, after being impressed by a demo in a chemistry lesson, took it upon himself to nick the necessary reagents from the lab. He went into production of tri-iodide, and caused much mirth with loud but innocuous bangs around the school. He developed his detonation technique by packing the stuff around a bit of eureka wire, connected by a long length of cable to a 9V battery in a nearby hiding place - simply connect the battery terminals and <crack!>. Didn't take him long to reach his 'piece de resistance'.... he wrapped his final batch of tri-iodide in cling film to make it waterproof, shoved it down one of the toilet bowls in the boy's toilets, and ran the detonation cable up the side of the bowl (concealed under a length of wet paper), under the seat, and down again, into the next cubicle where he perched waiting with his 9V battery. The trap was completed by closing all the cubicle doors bar the relevant one, and removing one of the light bulbs to make it gloomy in there.

The rest of us waited hidden outside at break, and it didn't take long for a random kid to wander in for a shit. Count one, two, <trousers undone> three, four <sits down > five, six, seven, connect the battery.... and BOOM! Soon my mate came out looking panic-struck - said there hadn't been a sound from next door afterwards 'what if he's dead? Shit shit shit...' There was then a bit of finger pointing and blame attributing, and then the victim finally emerged, ashen-faced. Was actually quite relieved to find out what had happened - he thought there'd been an explosion in the sewer or something, and had just sat there shaking. We all went in to inspect the outcome... the toilet bowl was completely empty, and all the porcelain was covered in soot. There was water up all the walls of the cubicle and even the ceiling - you could even see where he'd been sitting as there were dry areas matching up to where his thighs and arse had been.

Happy days. That was the final outing for the tri-iodide though; I think my friend decided he'd pushed his luck enough...
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 02 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you paint it wet round the edge of a cupboard door then gently shut it, once it dries, the next person to open the door finds it opening more eventfully than they expected.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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