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Muc-Off, are they a reputable company? Perhaps not!!

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struan80
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 13 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
. Edit wrong thread Smile
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MCN
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PostPosted: 20:07 - 14 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shite mostly. Razz

Oiling sealed chains can prevent the plates and rollers corroding. The oil in the pin and Bush is held in by rubber seals. Oiling the plates will help the seals as the Oiling cycles was out crap that can fill the wee gaps.
Dedicated vehicle soaps work on road film better than dish wash.
For hands that do dishes to feel soft as your foreskin, use mild green Fairy Liquid. (Not sure if any of the other Fairy colours are as effective.)
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:27 - 14 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
You should oil the interface between the chain and the sprocket if you really want to make a chain last a long time.
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jimster
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PostPosted: 20:33 - 14 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
It doesn't need to be sodium chloride specifically because any salt that is an electrolyte (it doesn't even need to be a salt as weak acids are also electrolytes, etc) will accelerate corrosion the same as anything that is an oxidiser will cause natural corrosion by oxidation (including the air itself).


You've greatly exceeded the limit of my faintly remembered science A-levels but Bennetts (seems) to disagree with you. See the part in this youtube vid starting at 19:07 where they claim to have spoken to some random professor with relevant experience and who says there's "nothing" in washing up liquids that accelerates corrosion (as the salts used in washing liquid are surfactants, without any chloride). Are they wrong? I'm now confused again.

https://youtu.be/9NsFLPDgFqA?feature=shared&t=1147
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jeremyr62
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PostPosted: 10:59 - 15 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
jimster wrote:
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
It doesn't need to be sodium chloride specifically because any salt that is an electrolyte (it doesn't even need to be a salt as weak acids are also electrolytes, etc) will accelerate corrosion the same as anything that is an oxidiser will cause natural corrosion by oxidation (including the air itself).


You've greatly exceeded the limit of my faintly remembered science A-levels but Bennetts (seems) to disagree with you. See the part in this youtube vid starting at 19:07 where they claim to have spoken to some random professor with relevant experience and who says there's "nothing" in washing up liquids that accelerates corrosion (as the salts used in washing liquid are surfactants, without any chloride). Are they wrong? I'm now confused again.

https://youtu.be/9NsFLPDgFqA?feature=shared&t=1147


Random Professor is right. He's flat out wrong. I work in a University and academics are the last people you should ask about anything in the real world. Ask a Unilever or Proctor and Gamble technologist or anyone that actually makes these products if they use salt for an informed answer.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 14:38 - 15 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
jimster wrote:
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
It doesn't need to be sodium chloride specifically because any salt that is an electrolyte (it doesn't even need to be a salt as weak acids are also electrolytes, etc) will accelerate corrosion the same as anything that is an oxidiser will cause natural corrosion by oxidation (including the air itself).


You've greatly exceeded the limit of my faintly remembered science A-levels but Bennetts (seems) to disagree with you. See the part in this youtube vid starting at 19:07 where they claim to have spoken to some random professor with relevant experience and who says there's "nothing" in washing up liquids that accelerates corrosion (as the salts used in washing liquid are surfactants, without any chloride). Are they wrong? I'm now confused again.

https://youtu.be/9NsFLPDgFqA?feature=shared&t=1147


This is one of those occassions where it's important to actually read what I said, which was "any salt that is an electrolyte" where I qualified the statement to only encompass salts which were electrolytes and not all salts: I did not say "all salts are electrolytes". I also noted immeadiately before this it doesn't have to be sodium chloride specifically. As such nothing that I said contradicts what the randome Professor said, nor does anything the random Professer say contradict mine in return. So, nobody disagreed with anybody.

Accerelated corrosion occurs between dissimilar metals when they are electrically bridged with an electrolyte. The electrolyte allows the transfer of ions and that is the mechanism of accelerated corrosion. Corrosion cannot be stopped, it will always occur as it is the reduction or oxidation of a metal to it's lowest energy state as all things in the universe like to be in equilibrium (so will typically form an oxide or sulphide), the only thing that can be changed is the rate at which it occurs. Sometimes to form the oxide it goes through reduction (a gain in electrons) and sometimes it goes through oxidation (a loss of electrons). The only exceptions to this are gold and platinum which will not oxidise under normal atmospheric conditions (generally, they need heat added to oxidise).
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 14:39 - 15 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
jeremyr62 wrote:
Random Professor is right. He's flat out wrong. I work in a University and academics are the last people you should ask about anything in the real world. Ask a Unilever or Proctor and Gamble technologist or anyone that actually makes these products if they use salt for an informed answer.


Another person who should actually read what I wrote before going off on one. Are you working in the canteen or something?
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jimster
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PostPosted: 22:00 - 16 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Angry Scotsman wrote:
Another person who should actually read what I wrote before going off on one. Are you working in the canteen or something?


Username checks out Laughing

So your point was there are other salts than sodium chloride that can cause corrosion, but they aren't in washing up liquid.

9 out of 10 for scientific input / 3 out of 10 for clarity Wink
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 08:48 - 17 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCN wrote:
and Bush


https://i.giphy.com/media/SWV4S6i79pygM/giphy.webp
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 10:33 - 17 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
jimster wrote:
Username checks out Laughing


I can't be accused of false advertising
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 10:51 - 17 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
Accerelated corrosion

How long would Muc Off or washing up liquid have to be left on the bike for there to be any risk of accelerated corrosion or normal speed corrosion?
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 11:07 - 17 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
Accerelated corrosion

How long would Muc Off or washing up liquid have to be left on the bike for there to be any risk of accelerated corrosion or normal speed corrosion?


No idea, I could do a comparative study though. I have a CCT chamber so could have a control plate, plate treated with muc-off and plate treated with washing up liquid and see what happens in 24 hours.
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Hong Kong Phooey
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PostPosted: 09:44 - 18 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think Ste's question gives you all the insight you need.
Does a bike sit for days on end in suds after being washed?
No.

Is it going to rust in the hour or so it takes to wash it?
No.
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jimster
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PostPosted: 18:41 - 26 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interestingly, ParkTool are probably the top bicycle tool company in the world, and they recommend a "good quality" dishwasher soap for bicycle cleaning (as part of their incredibly comprehensive youtube DIY instructional videos).

And I know, I know, bicycles don't go as fast as motorbikes yadda yadda, but the principles are still similar. A chain is a chain!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2sKhSDrugE&t=15s

Shame there's no company out there doing this same kind of instructional series for motorbikes...
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 13:11 - 27 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Probably? Shocked

Park Tool are the top bicycle tool company in the world.

And Calvin Jones is the top bicycle mechanic in the world, he is a God amongst men.

https://i.imgur.com/gVYG3R1.png
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:28 - 27 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
Is it going to rust in the hour or so it takes to wash it?
No.


You say that but when I had to silver-solder new mounts on a cheap fuel tank I obviously took the affected surfaces to back to bare metal. I swear the Chinesium was rusting before my eyes in real time Laughing
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Hong Kong Phooey
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PostPosted: 14:16 - 27 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
Is it going to rust in the hour or so it takes to wash it?
No.


You say that but when I had to silver-solder new mounts on a cheap fuel tank I obviously took the affected surfaces to back to bare metal. I swear the Chinesium was rusting before my eyes in real time Laughing


Well you should have washed it down with some Fairy then. Car brake discs are the same, though most bare metal bike parts are alloys with things added to slow corrosion where that's appropriate.

Ste wrote:
Probably? Shocked

Park Tool are the top bicycle tool company in the world.

And Calvin Jones is the top bicycle mechanic in the world, he is a God amongst men.

https://i.imgur.com/gVYG3R1.png


Now that's what I call a tash. He's like the Nigel Mansell of push bike fiddling.
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jimster
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PostPosted: 02:26 - 03 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
Probably? Shocked

Park Tool are the top bicycle tool company in the world.

And Calvin Jones is the top bicycle mechanic in the world, he is a God amongst men.

https://i.imgur.com/gVYG3R1.png


I've spent more hours watching Calvin Jones slapping gobs of lube on a bike's behind than, erm, some other sites with similar content.
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