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Nute
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 24 Dec 2022
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PostPosted: 15:08 - 20 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guilty to wandering off the subject, but I still didn’t mention Sur Rons…
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



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PostPosted: 15:12 - 20 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was pointing out from the start that you were off topic....
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 19:26 - 20 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nute wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Paris recently banned electric scooters.


No, they haven’t, they have banned rental scooters. Privately owned ones are still perfectly legal to own/ use.


Not on the road.
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Nute
Borekit Bruiser



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PostPosted: 08:57 - 21 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:


Not on the road.


The rules on scooter use in France are
- no riding on pavements
- only use on roads where the speed limit is 50kph or lower and then keep to bike lane if there is one or the road, not the pavement
- ride one up only
- stick to the speed limit of 25 or 20 kph depending on the area.

https://francetravelplanner.com/go/paris/trans/bike/electric-scooters-in-paris-france.html

Private scooters still legal to use in Paris -

"While the rental machines are set to disappear from Paris streets, privately owned e-scooters are legal in France and will still be allowed in the capital. In an interview with Parisian Today in January, Hidalgo said it was “no problem” for Parisians to run private scooters."

https://www.moveelectric.com/e-scooters/paris-residents-vote-ban-rental-e-scooters#:~:text=While%20the%20rental%20machines%20are,Parisians%20to%20run%20private%20scooters.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 09:04 - 21 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of contradictions wherever you look though......

Can I use my electric scooter in France?
Riders can rent shared scooters but cannot yet ride private scooters on public roads. Electric scooters are classified as motor vehicles, and so all riders must have a valid driver's license and be over the age of 16 to ride them.

do e scooters have to be registered in france
Nevertheless, some of the rules and regulations suggested in the bill could eventually make their way to the e-mobility space in France and other parts of Europe. Indeed, Paris, for example, has already mandated the registration of personally owned electric scooters since the end of 2022.

So it's just the same as the way UK will probably go, registration, licence etc.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 09:52 - 21 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fog is caused by pedal bikes that come with or are retro-fitwd with battery and motor.
If they legislate for the e-scoots and etc, then motor assisted pedal bikes could be affected by the same rules.
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



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PostPosted: 10:04 - 21 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

E assisted nikes already have legislation giving an exemption from MOT, insurance, licence and registration requirements provided you have to pedal to get electric assistance and it can do no more than 17 mph.

They don't have an exemption from any other part of the road traffic act so you can be done for careless driving etc. unlike an ordinary cyclist.

E bikes of any other kind are just as illegal as escooters.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



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PostPosted: 10:59 - 21 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

They probably ought to bring in a "shitty moped" (snorfiets) category of motor vehicle like they have in Holland. As I understand, it's mopeds with a maximum design speed of 25kph which they can ride at 14. They can use cycle lanes (except in Amsterdam and Utrecht) and have a numberplate.

They have to be insured, you need to have a licence and helmets are now mandatory (they weren't until earlier this year)
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 21 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever they bring in they still have to enforce it and there isn't a chance in hell of that happening with the amount of unregistered scooters running around the country. That horse has akready bolted.

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
.
They don't have an exemption from any other part of the road traffic act so you can be done for careless driving etc. unlike an ordinary cyclist.


Is that right? Push bikes can't be done for traffic violations?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 14:07 - 21 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, exempt from the road traffic act. Thats why people who kill others due to poor cyycling get done for furious cycling and not death by careless/dangerous driving.
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Ste
Not Work Safe



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PostPosted: 14:40 - 21 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Nope, exempt from the road traffic act.

Citation on cyclists being exempt from the Road Traffic Act?
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A100man
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Joined: 19 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 15:39 - 21 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Nope, exempt from the road traffic act. Thats why people who kill others due to poor cyycling get done for furious cycling and not death by careless/dangerous driving.


My great grandfather was done for 'furious driving'.. Thumbs Up
.. of a horse and cart down Bedford high street - I believe around the turn of the last century.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 15:56 - 21 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Nope, exempt from the road traffic act.

Citation on cyclists being exempt from the Road Traffic Act?


I don't think they are exempt when they have a whole cross-heading of the Road Traffic Act dedicated to them Laughing

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/part/I/crossheading/cycling-offences-and-cycle-racing
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 16:43 - 21 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
Ste wrote:

Citation on cyclists being exempt from the Road Traffic Act?


I don't think they are exempt when they have a whole cross-heading of the Road Traffic Act dedicated to them Laughing

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/part/I/crossheading/cycling-offences-and-cycle-racing


Although much of the act does not apply to bicycles, it applies to "motor vehicles" which bicycles are not.

The "Drivers to comply with traffic signs" section does referr to simply "Vehicles" which are being "driven or propelled". ie. bicycles too.

However sur rons are motor vehicles within the definition of the act.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 21 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

In all honesty, I really hope they bring in a mechanism where e-scooters are able to get insured and validated from use on roads (via licensing, road tax, road worthiness tests, etc) because I will actually get one if they do. I genuinely like the Surron too. If it had a 60 mile real world range I would probably buy one.
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 17:14 - 21 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's more a case you don't have to worry about damage to a licence than exempt and as the max penalty is a fine is £1,000 for any of those crimes....
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Nute
Borekit Bruiser



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PostPosted: 18:13 - 21 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

E-scoots (private) are perfectly legal in France, even Paris, although there do seem to be a few websites which are confused on the issue. EUC's are legal too.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/politics/article/2023/04/03/rental-e-scooters-banned-from-paris-mayor-hidalgo-welcomes-landslide-referendum-win_6021534_5.html

It's from Le Mond but you need a sub to read the whole thing. On the first half you can see -

"The referendum turned into a plebiscite. On Sunday, April 2, 89.03% of the Parisians who voted on allowing rental electric scooters chose "against." As Mayor Anne Hidalgo had promised, Paris City Council will "purely and simply" follow the result and not renew the contracts of the three private operators (Lime, Tier and Dott), which each have 5,000 scooters in the capital. The contracts expire on August 31, and the rental scooters will disappear from the streets as of September 1. Privately-owned scooters will not be affected."

The government here were warned that the rental model risked the problems of them littering the pavement and being chucked in the Thames but ... they know best.

Id love to see them legalised, but maybe partly in the same way Germany did so some control can be exercised on the cheap crap catchy fire batteries some of them use. Ideally all users plus those on e-bikes should have 3rd party insurance.

I just hope they impose a speed limit without a mandatory max motor power because at 250w those of us of a larger build will struggle going up much of a hill.

Which countries have allowed them -

https://www.ridefatdaddy.com/are-electric-scooters-legal-in-your-country-check-with-our-list/
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



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PostPosted: 18:19 - 21 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off, the French may have legalised them but they also give priority to the right on their roundabouts, basically jamming the fucking things right up.

Secondly they are dangerous pieces of shit that are highly unstable and have stupidly small wheels. They are basically a kids toy with a powerful electric motor and have no place on either the road or the pavement.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 19:29 - 21 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have one round my estated that actually has a seat on it and must do the best part of 30mph. I'd hate to see what happens on an A road when a juggernaut goes barging past it.

To answer Nute, I just do not see anyway they can enforce anything. Non of the little sh1ts are going to get them plated even if it's made law. Would it be worth what they used to do with TV's when you bought them, gave your details to the licence enforcement? Maybe if that gave details to the police and there was a database like the MIB. However I suspect there would be a lot of Mickey Mouses buying them. The only other choice is to totally deregulate them completely, just to stop the law looking a complete arse.

Wifies Ebike came with a plug in twist grip throttle that means you don't even have to token gesture pedal to operate it, just ride it like a motorbike. Totally illegal but also unenforcable.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:55 - 21 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Wifies Ebike came with a plug in twist grip throttle that means you don't even have to token gesture pedal to operate it, just ride it like a motorbike. Totally illegal but also unenforcable.


Twist grip or thumb throttles are legal on certified 250W speed limited eBikes.
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 20:16 - 21 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
Wifies Ebike came with a plug in twist grip throttle that means you don't even have to token gesture pedal to operate it, just ride it like a motorbike. Totally illegal but also unenforcable.


Twist grip or thumb throttles are legal on certified 250W speed limited eBikes.


Citation?

Edit: You mean 'type approved'.
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recman
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PostPosted: 10:28 - 22 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Twist grip or thumb throttles are legal on certified 250W speed limited eBikes.


Not entirely sure that's correct.
When I ordered my Swytch conversion kit, the site only offered the bar mounted throttle lever control to customers outside the UK, specifically mentioning the US.
I wouldn't have bought one anyway as I wanted assistance, not lazy faddassness.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:28 - 22 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

recman wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
Twist grip or thumb throttles are legal on certified 250W speed limited eBikes.


Not entirely sure that's correct.
When I ordered my Swytch conversion kit, the site only offered the bar mounted throttle lever control to customers outside the UK, specifically mentioning the US.
I wouldn't have bought one anyway as I wanted assistance, not lazy faddassness.


Wot Nobby said: "type approved" (I mispoke.) A manufacturer can submit a bike to the DVSA to be tested as a "250W LPM" (low powered moped.)

An eBike with a retro-fitted throttle could be sent through the MSVA testing system if you want to stay strictly speaking legal Wink
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Nute
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PostPosted: 18:48 - 22 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

@polarbear, yep you are right. Mr average who gets flagged down by plod stops and is given his telling off / ticket etc but the 14 year old kids just stick 2 fingers up and clear off down the nearest alleyway.

Much like the oiks two up on mopeds, no helmets and looking for a bike or moped to pinch who plod also struggle to catch.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 01:53 - 23 Nov 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing in the above makes cunts on e-skoots on public roads and pavements any less of a shower of cunts.
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