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bhinso
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PostPosted: 17:15 - 25 Jan 2024    Post subject: Nottingham Stabbings Reply with quote

Opinions on the verdict?

3 people subjected to cultural enrichment, and another 3 subjected to attempted cultural enrichment.

Except not murder, only manslaughter because mental health etc.

What I didn't quite get was that the prosecution claimed they had consulted with, and got agreement from, all victims families that manslaughter was the best way forward.

But yet the news headlines at lunchtime were 'families furious about manslaughter plea'.

I imagine the loopy lawyers got to them and said the only way they were likely to get a verdict was by going for manslaughter.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:32 - 25 Jan 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now how justice works in a civilised country is it works dispassionately and the victims of crime are not given a say on the punishment. If you want the victims to have a say on punishment go to a strict muslim country.

The CPS don't accept diminished responsibility lightly and the fact that he will probably spend the rest of his life in a secure hospital like Rampton means that multiple doctors have convinced the CPS that he is a proper mentalist.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 19:51 - 25 Jan 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Now how justice works in a civilised country is it works dispassionately and the victims of crime are not given a say on the punishment. If you want the victims to have a say on punishment go to a strict muslim country.

The CPS don't accept diminished responsibility lightly and the fact that he will probably spend the rest of his life in a secure hospital like Rampton means that multiple doctors have convinced the CPS that he is a proper mentalist.


One of those occasions where frenology would have brought us to the same conclusion.

ie He looks like a fuking mental case.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:01 - 25 Jan 2024    Post subject: Re: Nottingham Stabbings Reply with quote

bhinso wrote:
the prosecution claimed they had consulted with, and got agreement from, all victims families that manslaughter was the best way forward.

But yet the news headlines at lunchtime were 'families furious about manslaughter plea'.

Current reports say the families were only told in November that it would be manslaughter, and the families had no say in it.

It’s an odd term though, “manslaughter”.

Quote:
The crime of killing a human being without malice aforethought.’

I don’t think ‘without malice’ applies to this or similar cases where the killer is said to have “diminished responsibility due to mental illness.” You could argue that anyone who kills has a screw loose, -unless it was in defence, maybe? The voices told him to do it, but he did it.

According to Mind:
Quote:
If you are charged with murder and can show that you had an 'abnormality of the mind' when you committed the crime, the court will convict you of manslaughter instead. This could mean less punishment. This is called 'diminished responsibility.’

“Manslaughter” might also imply that if he can show recovery he’ll be out early. “He’s better now, it’s all ok,” when what he did can never be undone.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:23 - 25 Jan 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typical murder 'life' sentence is about 7 years.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:29 - 25 Jan 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Source?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:45 - 25 Jan 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Source?


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2020/17/schedule/21/enacted

Starting point for a life sentence is 15 Years but as we all know people generally only serve half their term.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 23:49 - 25 Jan 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Source?


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2020/17/schedule/21/enacted

Starting point for a life sentence is 15 Years but as we all know people generally only serve half their term.


It entirely depends on case circumstances.

Some get locked up and they throw the key away.

If they were very young at the time of the offence they might outlive the sentence.

Premeditated murders, serial killings, those proved to be psychopaths/sociopaths get more tailored sentencing.

It is possible to murder someone and not get a full life sentence too.
Manslaughter is very clearly not murder. That simply.when you do or cause someone's death. Accidental killing has to be allowed. Such is life.

I believe a nice touch would be for those who agree to set monsters free on licence, serve the remainder of the sentence, if the person that they released re-offends.

That might give them pause.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 11:20 - 26 Jan 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
Manslaughter is very clearly not murder. That simply.when you do or cause someone's death. Accidental killing has to be allowed.

Manslaughter is not simply 'accidental killing' though. And far from being "clearly not murder", it's often very hard to distinguish the two, and lawyers make a great deal of money arguing the toss about the difference.
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 13:17 - 26 Jan 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Typical murder 'life' sentence is about 7 years.


Yeah, I ws pretty gutted when Rogerborg told me that many moons ago on this forum. A friend of mine was kicked to death and the three guys (Zulfiqar, Bashir and Maqsood) that did it were each sentenced to 15 years. The oldest was 23 at sentencing so probably out by 30.
Apparently they would have gotten longer if they'd been found guilty of it being racially motivated, but shouting we've killed the white man after they stamped on his head while he was unconcious doesn't count as rascist.
I suppose at least they were caught and didn't manage to board the flights they'd booked to Pakistan to evade accountability completely.

The justice system in this country really is a disappointment.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 13:22 - 26 Jan 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freddyfruitbat wrote:
MCN wrote:
Manslaughter is very clearly not murder. That simply.when you do or cause someone's death. Accidental killing has to be allowed.

Manslaughter is not simply 'accidental killing' though. And far from being "clearly not murder", it's often very hard to distinguish the two, and lawyers make a great deal of money arguing the toss about the difference.


But it is quite clearly defined in law.

Intent is a big part of it.

Lawyers make money no matter what.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:49 - 26 Jan 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lifetime in a mental institution sounds unnecessarily cruel. What I can't work out is the same people who claim hanging is evil and wrong also claim there are too many people on the planet Thinking

I suggest we hang all the child molesters, murderers and nutters, check the numbers and if we need cull more we can move down the list Wink
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 21:27 - 26 Jan 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murdering people is the definition of mental illness.
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Tierbirdy
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PostPosted: 23:08 - 26 Jan 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the people claiming this is unfair and he got off lightly have clearly never actually seen inside a proper secure psychiatric unit where they send the mental stabbers and rapers etc. They just hear "oh its a hospital" and assume its like their local A&E or cottage hospital. Having visited both prisons and psych units in a work capacity, if I had to spend the rest of my life in one of them Id pick the prison any day. Being told hes likely to never be released from a mental hospital is far worse than a prison term of any length. He can look forward to spending the rest of his life as a monged out zombie wandering halls with other wailing banshee zombies doped off their tits on a cocktail of antipsychotics until one of the other patients decides his brains look tasty or something.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 14:53 - 28 Jan 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

BCF'ers might be interested to know that there's a Ride of Remembrance in aid of the Grace O'Malley-Kumar Foundation planned for 19 May, from North Weald Airfield:

https://graceomalleykumarfoundation.org/ride-of-remembrance-for-grace/

https://i0.wp.com/graceomalleykumarfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/WhatsApp-Image-2023-12-02-at-17.22.29_8b3f73b3.jpg?w=817&ssl=1
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MCN
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 28 Jan 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

The statement to the public by the judge who presided over a recent Edinburgh High Court trial of a monster who had murdered a young mum.

https://judiciary.scot/home/sentences-judgments/sentences-and-opinions/2023/10/25/hma-v-christopher-mcgowan

We can sometimes justify a rope and and drop.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 00:56 - 29 Jan 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Typical murder 'life' sentence is about 7 years.

"In England and Wales, the average life sentence prisoners serve are around 15 to 20 years before being paroled"

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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:48 - 30 Jan 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems even the powers that be aren't happy as to how it has been handled. With good reason in my view.

Valdo Calocane: Review into decision to accept triple killer's pleas


A review of the decision by prosecutors to accept manslaughter pleas in the Nottingham attacks case has been ordered by the attorney general.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-68142355
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 14:58 - 30 Jan 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
It seems even the powers that be aren't happy as to how it has been handled

Hmm. Do we think that would be happening if it wasn't an election year?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 15:05 - 30 Jan 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typical popularist tory bullshit.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 30 Jan 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Typical popularist tory bullshit.


Gotta throw out some red meat now and then.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 22:19 - 01 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems another cultural exchange person after doing the stabby thing and claiming mental health issues is out after 2 years of hospital treatment.
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