Europe tour - advice/input please

[TravisBickle]

A couple of buddies and I (at least 3 confirmed so far but maybe as many as 4 or 5 total) are looking to do a short camping tour in Europe this August.

My son and I have ridden to Pays de la Loire about half a dozen times now (family holiday cottage where the others drive down by toll road, we ride the toll-free twisties and meet them down there and spend the week and come home). Some riding around when we get there, usually visit Le Mans, but not out every day. And not camping, we have a cottage when we get there.

Apart from that, the journey there and the journey home, I haven't done any other bike tours around Europe before. Although I have driven to and around Spain quite a lot in the past by car.

Anyway we're looking to put something together this August which would be solely a biking/camping holiday. None of us have ever done anything like this before. Personally I'd be in favour of heading for Portugal or the south of Italy or something but some of the group are less experienced and are in favour of something a bit closer to home. Maybe a week or so around France / Belgium / Netherlands / West Germany.

Any advice and input would be most welcome.

I haven't got any camping gear whatsoever so any advice on what we'll need and what to buy would be great! Personally I'm looking to go as light as possible with only the bare essentials.

Also what are the rules on wild camping / where can we find campsites? Are they expensive and do you generally have to pre-book or can you just rock up?

Any suggestions on places to visit and routes?
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2024 BMW M1000XR
2021 Honda CMX500 Rebel S
2016 Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport

[MCN]

Buy a Garmin GPS.
They only need a satellite signal.

Light weight tent.
Good sleeping bag.
Air mattress.
Stove. Gas.
And other things.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[doggone]

I've done it before with no cooking stuff at all but you might miss early morning tea.
On a bike you don't need to go for tiny tent, you want to be able to put possibly wet bike gear at one side while in there.
You can get away with little more than waterproofs, tent and sleeping bag if it is summer, even spare clothes are somewhat optional as you can buy a T shirt etc as you go if needed.

Wild camping might be Ok or it might not. In some 'wild' forest areas you might get a pickup going round after midnight full of deliverance types swigging cans and hoping to shoot a deer or rabbits. They might be Ok or might think it funny to scare you
In dry areas they are paranoid you might accidentally start a fire which is a real enough risk.
I've done it many times but it's easier if not in a group.

[Freddyfruitba...]

Before you go off to Europe, but after you've assembled all your kit, head off somewhere reasonably locally for a night to check it all out. Then you can be sure you know how to pitch your tents, fire up your stoves, you haven't forgotten anything vital, and you can get all you need on your bikes.
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KC100->CB100N->CB250RS--------->DL650AL2->R1200RS->R1250RS

[stinkwheel]

France is a good bet because most towns of any size have a relatively inexpensive and well equipped "camping municipal". The nicer bits of France are some distance from the ferries though (same for all the shorter ferries from the UK).

Have a look at Decathalon for camping gear. For bike camping small (not necessarily light) tent, self inflating mat and sleeping bag. If you're my sort of age, one of those click together chairs is worth taking. Alternatively, if you have room for a quechua popup tent on your bike, the speed of putting it up and down every day may be worth the hassle of carrying a big disc-sized tent.

Take half as many clothes as you initially lay out. Get together and do a wash halfway through.Merino t-shirts are great because you can wear them for multiple days without stinking.

The key to success with touring is to leave early, then you arrive at your next location with plenty of time to do stuff. Don't lie in bed and not land up leaving until 11am.

When I tour Europe, I alternate 1 and 2 nighters so I do a high mileage day, stop for 2 nights, Do a short hop, stop for one night. Seems to work well.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[TravisBickle]

That's all really good advice.

Thanks guys.

In theory I should have my new BMW by then which will have the ConnectedRide navigator. Anyone know if that can be used without data? I'm not too fussed about the data, in theory it should be included in my EE package for the countries we'll be going to.

Was thinking of a self inflatable mattress as they offer more support and don't go down overnight.

As for cooking I'm not fussed about eating out every day. That said it would be nice to toast some sausages at night. And I guess only one of us needs to carry a stove between us.

My son said they do bivvys designed specifically for bikes that use the motorcycle for support at one end. Anyone ever tried one of these? Are they any good?

He also said something about sleeping bag bivvys that your sleeping bag goes inside and it's just big enough to give you a bit of breathing space around your head with a mesh you can close to stop the bugs getting in. Again, anyone used these before? Are they any good?

I don't mind the staying up having campfires and sleeping outdoors bit, I just abhor the setting up and packing away bit. So if I can streamline that bit as much as possible that would be great.

It'll be August so I'm rather hoping there won't be any rain and the need for drying gear out.
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2024 BMW M1000XR
2021 Honda CMX500 Rebel S
2016 Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport

[MCN]

[TravisBickle]

So I think we've settled on Amsterdam and Nürburgring.

Anywhere specific we should go in Amsterdam / things to see and do?

What's the deal with Nürburgring? Do you literally just rock up and ride or does anything need to be booked / is there anything in particular you need to bring in order to be let on?
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2024 BMW M1000XR
2021 Honda CMX500 Rebel S
2016 Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport

[stinkwheel]

Nimijen is nice. Most of Holland is relatively flat and boring in terms of roads but the people are lovely.

I use an android app called OSMand for navigation. It has all the roads and is open source, also works offline. The mapping is very good, uses open street map. You get 6 free map downloads. The interface is a bit clunky but I even managed to make it follow pre-loaded GPX tracks so it went on the roads I wanted rather than following shortest/quickest/easiest etc. It's not fantastic at finding the places you wanted so i sometimes had to find them on google and drop a pin in OSM once I knew where it was. Navigated the whole of the NR2 in Protugal with it last year.

If you are doing the tourist thing in Amsterdam, I recommend pre-purchasing a "Dam card" which gets you into most of the museums etc, queue jumps for most of them, all day tram and bus pass, boat tour and a load of discounts. You pre-order it and pick it up at the tourist office. The ability to just jump on any bus or tram was great.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[A100man]

Amsteerdam is edgy but interesting - you will need to pay for secure parking Q-park for example, lots of tourist traps so I just prefer to stroll around. The 'Brown Bars' behind a thick curtain are where the locals drink. The Flea market is fun on Waterlooplein, Leidseplein usually has some good buskers and the nearby Waterhole bar is about about as cheap as it gets with decent sounds too. From Leidseplein you have easy acces to VondelPark for a stroll.
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Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600

[doggone]

(In Holland) found riding on the polder dam roads somewhere was interesting, and towards Germany there are pretty forest areas and even gentle hills.
Even 20 years ago Amsterdam did not feel like a safe place to park a bike for long in the street though I did stay in a little hotel very central there was a way to get out of sight behind. It was still a relief to see it still there next morning. It's a confusing place to ride or walk around as the canals are like concentric circles you tend to imagine they are more like a grid at first.
The central area is quite small it reminded me of York.
But other things there are not at all like York.

Beware of aggressive beggars and 'locals' who will practically take you by the arm to show you things then expect a payment, and be quite angry and rude if you say no.

[TravisBickle]

Ok great, Nimijen is about half way between Amsterdam and RAF Hospital Wegberg (was going to stop here on the way to Nürburgring as my dad was born there and would be interesting to see, seeing as we passing by) so we'll probably add Nimijen to the list of places to go on the way. Think it's worth a short stop while passing through or a whole day?

So Amsterdam not a great place to leave your bike. Will look into secure parking! What about outside Amsterdam and places we're likely to stop along the way? Is it just Amsterdam we need to be concerned about or pretty much everywhere we go in Netherlands/Germany?
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2024 BMW M1000XR
2021 Honda CMX500 Rebel S
2016 Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport

[stinkwheel]

[MCN]

We had a wee stop-off in Mastrich in Jan this year.
Cute lil ancient town. Nice. People are friendly.
Not as much Eastern promise as in Amsterdam. Amsterdam is ruined by that influx of folk who have no real reason to be there.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[TravisBickle]

I'm not overly fussed by Amsterdam to be honest but I'm going with my son and a mate (possibly more but no others have confirmed yet). I think my son only wants to go to Amsterdam for the hashbars LOL I also thought as it's supposed to be not a mammoth tour, Netherlands kinda makes sense as we can do a few countries inside a week without flogging ourselves with 12 hours in the saddle every day.

For me, it's more about RAF Hospital Wegberg, Nürburgring, hopping through several countries, seeing lots of nice villages and people along the way and getting some beautiful riding in.

I've never been a fan of large cities. Would always much rather find a quaint little village and find a backstreet restaurant or bar and enjoy meeting the locals.

I've never been to Amsterdam though so it's one to cross off the list I suppose.
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2024 BMW M1000XR
2021 Honda CMX500 Rebel S
2016 Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport

[Evil Hans]

[blurredman]

I'm sorry I can't advise on the camping as I've not really used a tent but for once or twice. Most of the time i've just found a quiet spot and slept in my clothes under the bike.


But the furthest East you go the cheaper so to get hostels (or indeed full on hotels) for £5-£10 a night in Eastern Europe and then the tents just seem pointless.
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CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S.
Current: 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 17k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 9k, 1979 MZ TS150 - 8k, 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (295cc) - 38k, 1989 MZ ETZ251 - 50k.

[MCN]

[TravisBickle]

So our standard bike insurance won't cover it, even though it's a pubic road?
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2024 BMW M1000XR
2021 Honda CMX500 Rebel S
2016 Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport

[Nobby the Bastard]

From my policy...

[TravisBickle]

[MCN]

There are coffee shops and there are coffee shops in Amsterdam.
We popped into some dens.
But there are plenty of really nice places. Very amicable people working the counters too.

If you're buying that boutique style whiffy tobacco it's not cheap.
€12 and upwards.
I don't even know if it's a metered bang-4-your-buck.
It must be a bit more regulated than buying from some kunt in a pub.
We only tried a couple of shops as we were not there to get baked. Just dabble.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[Fizzer Thou]

Been going to Holland since I was a kid but on the bike since 1982 for the Dutch TT at the end of June.It gets wet without much notice.

The last time I went was last year and enjoyed riding many of the back roads and stopping off whenever the need arose.

My favourite town in Holland was a small town called Weert,on the border with Germany.The people in the hotel were very accomodating and let me park my bike overnight in their loading bay.This was my concern after someone I used to know was parked in Amsterdam and the bike was stolen.Luckily it had a Tracker fitted and the bike was retrieved,but with damage sustained to the steering lock mechanism the holiday was curtailed.

As for the 'Ring,I stopped off there on the way home from a friend's wedding in Tuscanny back in 2005.There was no getting out on the track as there was a Porsh Owners Club meeting and had booked the road/track until much later in the day.I know plenty of people who have ridden...and crashed at the 'Ring and have said that the Spa track in Belgium is much more 'fun'.
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Just talk bikes.What else is there?

Always have a 'Plan B'

[Tierbirdy]

Go Outdoors and Decathalon are great bets for cheap camping kit that isnt totally shite.

Camp sites are generally dirt cheap and happy to let you turn up unannounced. I think the most we ever paid for camping was about €5 a night, though usually more like €2-3. France in particular camp sites are plentiful and cheap as its their national pastime, youll find government funded "camping municipal" sites pretty much everywhere and theyll all be pretty decent with a good shower block, cooking areas and coin launderette.

How far do you want to ride in a day would dictate where you can reasonably go in your time frame. Ive done a few big tours around Europe with mates, we generally agree to do no more than 300 miles in a day, because much more than that and it becomes a miserable slog of boring motorway miles. Obviously can be some variation, if we wanna spend one day to really get somewhere and do 500 miles of straight motorway just to get a country out of the way then so be it, but try to avoid it as much as possible and leave time spare so if we find something interesting along the way we can go off route and have a little explore rather than worrying about having another 600 miles to go and have to be there in time to check in to somewhere.

The Normandy area of France is absolutely beautiful and has some gorgeous riding roads, can highly recommend. And obviously tonnes of D-Day history and sites to visit if thats your thing. Belgium and the Netherlands I found a bit bland and uninspiring to ride around.

Belgium is generally miserable and best avoided at all costs, outside of Brussels pretty much everything closes at stupidly early times (buggered if you wanna go to the shops after 4pm) and has weird local customs like only accepting cash or the local equivalent of PayPal to pay in restaurants & shops.

Last "big" trip we did was to Monaco and back, via Switzerland and through some mountain passes down into Italy then back across into France, did it in about 8 days and that was brilliant. Some absolutely fantastic roads in the mountain regions along the boarders, and a little bit of different culture from all the countries along the way.

[TravisBickle]