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Torque wrench calibration

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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 07:51 - 14 Oct 2024    Post subject: Torque wrench calibration Reply with quote

Strictly this isn't bikes (although does relate to bike applications too), but plenty of folk I trust to know what they're talking about (unlike some forums full of amrchair mechanics). I was working on my van over the weekend and this required breaking out the "big" torque wrench, which is also a rather budget Draper one. Big(ish) torque figures were being called for which got me thinking about the calibration of that wrench. Is there anything fundamentally wrong with buying some £20 hanging scales (or a digital version, seems even cheaper - could check calibration using a measured amount of water) off Amazon, sticking the socket into some aluminium grips in the vice and using a bit of maths and pull on it with the hanging scales to calibrate it? It's not a precision tool, but 10% out is quite a big torque difference where we're talking close to 200Nm applications! Or should I just find a company that does calibration and throw my torque wrenches at them?

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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 09:27 - 14 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll save you some money. I've done it before using a live load. Remember water weighs 1kg/litre and because it is not particularly dense, a small error in your volume measurement isn't a big percentage error. Especially with a big load.

So wrench in a vice paralell to the ground, bucket on string attached. If your string is 50cm out, add water until it clicks and divide the number of litres by two to get the weight you just applied.
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Last edited by stinkwheel on 10:17 - 14 Oct 2024; edited 1 time in total
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Confusion
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PostPosted: 09:41 - 14 Oct 2024    Post subject: Re: Torque wrench calibration Reply with quote

ThunderGuts wrote:

Is there anything fundamentally wrong with buying some £20 hanging scales (or a digital version, seems even cheaper.


A digital luggage scales is ideal for calibrating torque wrenches.
Most of them are more accurate than the usual torque wrench
standard of 4%.

Quote:
could check calibration using a measured amount of water


You can check it against any known good reference. There will
always be some error in the volume of your measuring jug or the
accuracy of the ruler used to measure the length of the torque
wrench handle. However, it is not difficult to achieve the 4% standard.

I have found packaged goods are a fairly reliable reference.
2kg of flour or 1kg of sugar will typically be 1% over (including the paper bag.
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A100man
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 14 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Torque wrrenches are for important item s like head-studs and flywheel nuts - anything else should be done by feel (small stuff) or grunt (big stuff).

I fitted a towbar yesterday - instruction said 200Nm - on M12 bolts - I just did them up 'kin tight.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 14:47 - 14 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all Thumbs Up

A100man wrote:
Torque wrrenches are for important item s like head-studs and flywheel nuts - anything else should be done by feel (small stuff) or grunt (big stuff).

I fitted a towbar yesterday - instruction said 200Nm - on M12 bolts - I just did them up 'kin tight.


Yeah I get that, but that's where the "elbow calibration" falls apart (for me at least). 'kin tight and 'kin 'ell tight seem all similar but in reality one could be 50% higher torque than the other. I've always done wheel bolts by hand in the past (on cars) and just used an extendable wheel brace; as tight as I can get it in the "short" setting, knowing I'll always be able to crack the bolts with the wheel brace extended. I'd never have dreamt of putting as much torque on the wheel bolts as I did yesterday, but they're collared wheel bolts (again, new to me, only ever seen plain bolts before!).
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 15:09 - 14 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a policy of only putting wheel nuts on with the tool I might have to take them off again with at the side of the road.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 17:58 - 14 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
I have a policy of only putting wheel nuts on with the tool I might have to take them off again with at the side of the road.


Good shout. I have a breaker bar in the boot of my car. Trying to undo wheel nuts with the poxy brace supplied in most cars is a joke when the nuts have been put on by a KwikFit butcher with a nut knocker.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:02 - 14 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the space where a wheel would fit in my car is a can of tyre sealent and an electric pump.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 19:32 - 14 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
In the space where a wheel would fit in my car is a can of tyre sealent and an electric pump.


I tried tyre sealant once and it didn’t work, but good luck. That’s not the kind of uncertainty I want in a minor emergency.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:33 - 14 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

I has RAC card as well.

The car didn't come with a spare wheel and the sealant and pump is standard fitment from the maufacturer.

Plus I have mushrooms for fixing tyres.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 19:54 - 14 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
I has RAC card as well.

The car didn't come with a spare wheel and the sealant and pump is standard fitment from the maufacturer.

Plus I have mushrooms for fixing tyres.


Odd that I’ve never thought of mushrooms for car tyres even though I’ve used them successfully more than once on a bike. My car has a space saver which I think is a bit silly.

Thumbs up for RAC cover though. Had for ages, not made a call for years, but when you need them (like 3 months ago when the bike suffered an electrical fault on the A1[M] route to work) they’re brilliant.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:59 - 14 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mushrooms do live with the bike on account of the fact that I've had truck drivers stop and ask me if they can fill my tyre with air, which is pointless if I can't fix the leak, but the first time I ever used one was on the car.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 06:40 - 15 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are frequently out in remote mountain areas with no reception; I really dislike the idea of total reliance on a breakdown service when mobile reception is patchy (it would be bad enough on a nice day, horrendous in bad weather). Pre-having a kid with me, probably would be less precious about it, but these days I am particularly keen to be self sufficient.

I shall do a basic calibration check using a weight. Thumbs Up
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blurredman
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PostPosted: 07:35 - 15 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:


Good shout. I have a breaker bar in the boot of my car. Trying to undo wheel nuts with the poxy brace supplied in most cars is a joke when the nuts have been put on by a KwikFit butcher with a nut knocker.


That's why whenever I had had my tyres changed (I do them myself now), It used to be the first thing I do when I got home. To undo the nuts and tighten them up properly. I also now carry an adjustable nut bar now though as even though I used to do them up not to torque but 'reasonable', by the time I did get a puncture they were seized up anyway. The original wheel nut bar just bends at the weld.
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Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S, 1979 MZ TS150.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 07:41 - 15 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair, I've never had an issue with a wheel nut/bolt seized on, but wheels onto the spigots . . . oh yes (this is what I was doing at the weekend, removing, cleaning up and applying anti-seize).
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 09:03 - 15 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThunderGuts wrote:
To be fair, I've never had an issue with a wheel nut/bolt seized on, but wheels onto the spigots . . . oh yes (this is what I was doing at the weekend, removing, cleaning up and applying anti-seize).


Not so much seized but my local tyre place seems to tie the trigger down on their 3/4" impact then go on a tea break. I've seen me need my breaker bar with 4ft "assist" scaffolding pole to loosen them when I get home from having one fitted. I try to take a loose wheel in wherever possible to avoid this issue.

Maybe not right but I reckon if you hear them creak, they're on tight enough. Haven't had a wheel come off yet.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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A100man
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PostPosted: 10:53 - 15 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
. My car has a space saver which I think is a bit silly.


Lucky to get one of those. I had to specify my space saver as an option on thelatest car - otherwise it would be that sealant/pump get out. Rolling Eyes

On my previous motor C4 Picasso. there was no spare at all so I bought a full sized one. yet even though there was space in the well for it the rest of the trim didn't fit - you had to also get special trim.. or a space-saver.. bunch of cnuts
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 11:28 - 15 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

A100man wrote:

Lucky to get one of those. I had to specify my space saver as an option on thelatest car - otherwise it would be that sealant/pump get out. Rolling Eyes

On my previous motor C4 Picasso. there was no spare at all so I bought a full sized one. yet even though there was space in the well for it the rest of the trim didn't fit - you had to also get special trim.. or a space-saver.. bunch of cnuts


Our van (Transporter) has a full size spare, but it was a no-cost option, with the default being a can of foam or something. Why anyone would choose the can of foam over a full size spare (along with a toolkit which I am fairly sure doesn't come with it if you get the foam) is beyond me.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 12:37 - 15 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

For wheel nuts, I have been using torque sticks for the past few years. They are surprisingly accurate but I wouldn't use them on anything more critical.

No calibration required though.
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recman
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PostPosted: 16:29 - 15 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use multiple wrenches of various types at work, one of which is pretty sophisticated and does things I don't pretend to fully understand.
Anyway, all of this means they are regularly calibrated.
There always seems to be extra wrenches to check on those days. Wink
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:09 - 15 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

recman wrote:
I use multiple wrenches of various types at work, one of which is pretty sophisticated and does things I don't pretend to fully understand.
Anyway, all of this means they are regularly calibrated.
There always seems to be extra wrenches to check on those days. Wink

Checking is one thing. Do they go out of calibration though?
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 18:23 - 15 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThunderGuts wrote:
Why anyone would choose the can of foam over a full size spare (along with a toolkit which I am fairly sure doesn't come with it if you get the foam) is beyond me.

Seconded. A family member with a carfull of kids was out and about on Sunday, 200 miles from home when they noticed a large bulge in a sidewall (presumably caused by hitting a pothole at some point?). They were advised by the RAC on no account to drive the car any more. Ended up with a £500 mobile tyre fitter bill.

Nope, no spare wheel. Rolling Eyes
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blurredman
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PostPosted: 10:34 - 16 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember if you do have a full sized spare wheel, to cycle it through the car's mileage. You don't want to find after having a flat that your spare tyre is 30 years old and delaminates after 20 miles anyway... Yes, It might look a bit silly to have an odd wheel on the corner of your car for a year or two, but who cares.
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Current: 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 17k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 10k, 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (295cc) - 39k, 1989 MZ ETZ251 - 50k.
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recman
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PostPosted: 11:38 - 16 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
recman wrote:
I use multiple wrenches of various types at work, one of which is pretty sophisticated and does things I don't pretend to fully understand.
Anyway, all of this means they are regularly calibrated.
There always seems to be extra wrenches to check on those days. Wink

Checking is one thing. Do they go out of calibration though?


I must admit, I've not known any of them to need adjusting.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 15:37 - 16 Oct 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

blurredman wrote:
Remember if you do have a full sized spare wheel, to cycle it through the car's mileage. You don't want to find after having a flat that your spare tyre is 30 years old and delaminates after 20 miles anyway... Yes, It might look a bit silly to have an odd wheel on the corner of your car for a year or two, but who cares.


I get the theory (and I'm well aware of the issues with old tyres), but I think I'd rather just stick new rubber on it every 8 years or so than go through the faff of having odd wheels, plus the spare is steel and the main wheels are alloys - I'm fairly sure in my case the carrier will only take the steel wheel due to the shape of it
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