The future 600's

[BenBray]

As technology progresses, and race gear slowly gets outdated, more and more electronical assistance gets put into vehicles.

AFAIK, it always used to be the 1ltr bikes that got all the fancy stuff, but now yamaha have pimped up their 2006 R6, are we going to see a shift from flash 1ltr bikes, to flash 600cc sportsbikes?

It would certainly make more sense. 600cc's are certainly fast enough for road use, even though a lot of people still want stupidly fast bikes and I cant blame them one bit

But I cant help but feel I dont want all this electronic assistance in bikes. Sometimes it can be a bad thing, but sometimes it can be a good thing. My father always used to buy older cars with less gadgets in so he could do his own repairs etc without worrying about electronics - and one of the biggest perks about bikes is that you can fix almost everything yourself with a bit of knowledge. If you have electronic control systems all over the shop, chances are you'll need a mechanic to do stuff to tune it up and make it run well.

Which brings me on to riding it. I like the challenge that bikes send - you have to be on the ball and control the machine precisely.. it takes lots of skill to thrash a bike around - but with electronically messed with throttle cables to stop rear-wheel spin ups etc, is it going to get a bit boring?

I'm assuming the CBR6RR and ZX6R will follow the R6's lead in 2007, with the additional gadgets.

Whats your oppinion on all these fancy features that will be put into bikes soon?
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[Rookie]

I think the addition of things that cars are swarming with these days - computer chips which change the way the thing handles and drives - would be a monstrosity on a bike, I hope they don't get as far as car ones have. Whenever there's a car on Top Gear which doesn't use any of this crap and is just a machine, they rave about that fact. The fact is, the cars that utilise this aren't after a comfy, sophisticated ride. I don't think any bike is either. Let's face it, on a 10 hour journey, you're always going to be more comfortable in a car. So what's the point in doing something to a bike which people don't really want?

[Irezumi aka Reuben]

Most people will want the gadgets because Rossi and co have got them. Irrelevant of the benefits that they will bring.
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Pictorgraphicalfantastical

[G]

Sorry, what electronic gadgets has the new r6 got?

Presume it's got a shift light.
Ok, all the new sports bikes have fuel injection, but then most cars got that in the 80s.

Yes the r6 doesn't have a throttle cable. But then what it's not exactly a massive difference having a throttle position sensor connected directly to the twistgrip rather than connected to a cable which is connected to the twist grip - can see it possibly being more complex and harder to adjust to do what you want.

[Jack_Cheese]

The next R6's throttle opens for the most efficient acceleration, not directionally proportional to the grip. If you whack the throttle open, it will open the throttle whilst giving the most power-efficient fuel ammount to the engine.

Jack
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[craigs23]

I don't think that manufacturers deliberately focus on the 600s due to them wanting us to ride them; it's more like they see that 600s are the most popular sports bike class and manufacturer 'cutting edge' to sell to us.

The R1 will most probably be updated at the end of next year anyway - I'm guessing it'll look somewhat closer to an M1.

[BenBray]

AFAIK the R6's engine Is using the YCC-T technology used in the MotoGP bikes, which makes spinning rear wheel bloody difficult [or so I hear]. As soon as it breaks traction, it decides to slow down and not let you monster it around loads. To me, thats a pretty big electronic gadget.

Beyond that you have.. er.. yeah, the shift light, heh.

You also get a stacked gearbox and other stuff.

I was just making the point that lots of oldish motogp wizardry isnt that far off being put into standard bikes now, and I was wondering if people liked the idea of that and disliked the idea of that.

Craigs: and yes, I meant 600's are popular therefore they may be focusing on them more now. Well spotted.
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Current Bike: nc30

[Mister James]

New stuff will appeal to different groups of riders.

There are plenty of 'hardcore' sports bike riders who want maximum feedback from their tyres/brakes/suspension and want their every control input followed exactly by their bike.

There are other more relaxed or less experienced riders who would be quite happy for a bit more automation in their lives.

I read articles about things like the wacky BMW suspension, and where the journalists complain about the lack of feedback or forkdive, I think it sounds like a jolly good idea.

Horses for courses - that and cost is probably the reason for such slow introduction of new and GP tech.
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[Jack_Cheese]

I reckon safety gadgetry, such as traction control, and ABS are good ideas for dodgy weather, but if i owned a 600 superbike, i'd want to be able to switch it off for a good laugh at the weekends. I don't think all the moto gp electronics are worth it, and whilst a lot of riders will want to show off with their latest bit of wizardry on their bike, i can see plenty staying with traditional "riders'" bikes.

I reckon suzuki is probably the least likely to start putting over-interfering electronics on the bike, no idea why, just a gut feeling...

Jack
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[Deano]

can't see electronics being worrying at the moment.bikes are and will be minimalistic. just cant see the whole engine turning into a circuit board. if anything the fireblade's electronic damper should be used on most modern bikes 80 or more bhp.

[loply]

Am I correct in believing that the R6 throttle tube doesnt actually mechanically link to the throttle bodies, like in most engines?

So you shut the throttle and a motor shuts the throttle body for you?

Hmm...
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Yamaha SZR660 Caution to the wind, the throttle pinned!

[Jack_Cheese]

[loply]

Thats a bit dodgy if you ask me, it surely counts as overcomplicated? I know id rather have a good old fashioned pair of cables.

What purpose does it serve?
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Yamaha SZR660 Caution to the wind, the throttle pinned!

[Deano]

it stops your engine from flooding. if you whack the throttle open it will open the butterflys as fast as possible without the bike flooding one bit. It's either the butterflys or or/and control the amount of fuel being squirted by the injectors.

[Kickstart]

[octane]

Progress is good and generally for the better, if it wasn't we'd all be driving Ford Model T's.

As long as it doesn't take away the need for rider input from the bike, all the better; I can never understand this need people have for machines that you have to wrestle with to get the most from.
Riding's supposed to be a pleasure not a chore, and as long as whatever trickery comes next adds to that pleasure, all the better.

[craigs23]

It depends on what element of biking a rider can dervice their pleasure from. Personally, I opted for a cult classic bike which is probably slower than a well setup, better handling (out the crate) 600 sportsrep that I could have gotten instead.

I feel that my bike has more character than the newer, fitter, leaner steeds, plus my choice is somewhat iconic now and I like the fact that there's not a lot of techno-wizardry involved on making it the machine that it is. And apparently 16 inch wheels aren't too fashionable at the moment, but my bike wouldn't be the bike it is without such features.

I'm never going to be breaking any lap times or any land speed records on the way to work, I'd wanted something I didn't need to thrash the tits off to make any decent progress so full on race replicas for the road were out of the decision.

Must be getting old...

[akaDAVE]

I don't think there's any danger of electronic gadgetry having a negative affect on sports bikes. They are never going to focus on anything but performance, any comfort that brings will be incedental.
I'm keen though to try out the older bikes I've always wanted first - GSXR600 and the old fireblade before I go and buy a new bike with all the bells and whistles so I can appreciate the difference.
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GSXR600

[pjones_po]

Fly-by-wire is all good and well but I really do hope the bike manufacturers dont head the same way as car manufacturers, even making supposed sporty cars "fluffy" with electronics...

I remember having an old Fiesta XR2 years ago, carb'd and the throttle response was sweet and you could really play with the throttle....jump to now and I drove a Focus ST170 a while back and sure it was quick but there was absolutely NO relation between what my right foot was doing and what the engine was doing, great car but a real feeling of being disconnected.

I have to agree with Clarkson on this, be careful of how much control you take away from the driver, or rider in this case as it CAN dull the experience.

Electronic overlords have their place on both cars and bikes, I just hope they dont decide for us which ones should be mandatory....

Paul.

[the grim reaper]

This is why I went back to a 98 Blade, if I want to put a loud can on, I do it and, with the use of a gastester, I can get it fuelling correctly. I didn't even want the hassle of fuel injection as I'd then have to buy a Power Commander and pay for dyno runs etc.

A mate of mine has had two VW Corrados, the G60 and then the VR6, the VR6 was supposed to be a step-up but he hated it compared to the G60. The reason was that it had traction control, yaw control and was so much less involving to drive than the G60.

Gadgets are no necessarily a good thing, especially when they take away the 'feel' of the machine you are riding/driving. I like the little hesitation you get when you shut the throttle on a carbed bike and then bang it open again. I know it's the slides changing direction as quickly as they can and I like it. It reminds me of what is happening below me.

I had a fuel (or should that be fool) injected Blade and I didn't like it, it was somehow uninvolving. You twist the throttle and it just goes, you close the throttle and it slows down. It was somehow too efficient.

Cheers

Grim
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[NSR125-Kid-UK]

The aprilia has a CDI and an SAPC/ECU

That's just about enough electronics for me.
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[dainesefreak]

As far is I'm aware Brussels is already pressurizing the motorcycle manufacturers to sign up to it's safety initiatives. I remember reading that Honda had already signed up and is working on making it's bikes safer, developing traction control, rider airbags, etc and fitting them as standard. Can't find the article at the moment. You can guarantee that if Honda have signed up the others will too.

As far as things like fuel injection go, I personally couldn't tell the difference between a carb and an injected bike for being "uninvolving". The only thing I do notice is that it kicks in slightly more abruptly, but that I believe is a Honda thing. I would say that that will be the case for the majority of riders, even with changes like "fly by wire", etc. Whereas having a choice about a bike having the ABS always on and traction control is another story. However I would have to try it and see.

The lights on my bike are permanently on, which at first bothered me, but to be honest it's made no difference. No more or less people have cut me up or pulled out on me. I have HESD on my bike, no choice, always there and it's great. It makes the bike so more stable over rough stuff I can ride harder and faster, perhaps making my bike more "involving" than my previous machines without a damper. I'd say don't knock it till you've tried it and if you have tried it fair do's, but it's always going to be horses for courses.

The difference comes when the manufacturers lose their own initatives of development and progress and are forced to do what the powers that be tell them to do.

[BenBray]

In my oppinion, if you make me more relaxed about riding the bike with traction control etc, my attention will flag. I'll feel like I can throw the bike about, and have my ass saved by gadgets. Whether they do the job perfectly or not is irrelivant in my eyes - I'll still end up getting "switched off".

And to be honest, I dont like the concept of airbags on bikes. If you suddenly hit something, you're going to get boosted by what'll feel like a massive glove on the end of iron mikes left hook. Not nice.
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Current Bike: nc30