Parking ticket (with a photo)

[Vincey B]

Hi there,

Just got a parking ticket outside my work. The area where I normally park my bike is in a corner of a pavement in a pedestrianised area next to some cycle racks. Myself and many other bikes and scooters have parked there everyday for months and have been ignored by the traffic wardens, today however all the bikes had tickets on them.

I took a photo so this should become clearer:

https://www.geocities.com/mr2vince/bikepark2.jpg

Realistically do you think I should appeal? The grounds would be:

1) I and many other bikes have parked there for months in full view of the traffic wardens without getting a ticket.

2) There is no sign to say you cant park there, and as its right next to cycle racks it can hardly be called a pavement.

3) There used to be 2 bike parks outside my work to accomodate about 10 bikes, the area was recently pedestrianised and the council forgot to paint back the bike parks, after hassling them a man came and sprayed on the bike park with an aerosol can and it was later permanently marked well after the development was finished. The origional 2 bike parks were replaced by 1 small bike part that can hold no more than 4 bikes on a good day.


Its Camden council so have a well deserved reputation for being complete Nazi's when it comes to parking, im just wondering if its worth my wild going through the hassle of appealing then finding myself with a £100 fine rather than £50.


On a side note I remember on one of those documentary programmes that was on TV some years ago about parking attendants that they couldnt issue a ticket if they could not specify the make of the vehicle on the ticket. I have already removed the ER5 decal but left the Kawasaki, if I removed that as well they would have no way of knowing what make the bike was unless they happened to be particularly up on bikes themselves.

Also the tax disc number is included on the ticket, if I removed this while parked as many bikers do in London would they not be able to issue a ticket?

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
Vince

[greenmeanie]

ignore the ticket and say it must of blown off in the wind
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Rh.

[kb-zxr]

You know some bike's tax disc are labeled as vehicle = bicycle.

I suppose if you were in the bike parking bit you are playing fair

[SimonB]

Your picture doesn't work on my computer.
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Bikes: Honda CBR250RR [sold], Yamaha FZR600 [sold], Honda CBR600RR6

[Danny]

If you appeal within 14 days and your appeal is rejected you still only pay the £50 fine.
So I would appeal it, it only costs you the price of a stamp.

BTW, your link doesn't work for me either.

[Vincey B]

Have added the photo as attachment now...

[Minky_monkey]

I'd have to agree with Danny, would a secure cover over the bike solve the problem?

[carlnicholson...]

Cant belive I'm admitting this, but I was once a Traffic Warden. Sorry!

What code were you done for?

DON'T just ignore it or say it blew off. You will lose the right to appeal and the fine will double, and then the fine is enforcable by law.

DO appeal. Even if you are in the wrong, if the cunt, sorry, warden who issued it made just one small error filling in their pocket book then you are off scott free.

Ring the Parking Services number on the back of the ticket, ask about their appeal procedures. Send in a copy of your photo, and list all of your concerns, BUT BE NICE! If you get snotty, your appeal will be thrown out as it is essentially down to the discretion of the Parking Services manager. KEEP HIM SWEET.

It's shit, I know, but you do have a good chance of getting it squashed. If not and the 14 day reduced payment time has elapsed, you will still only have to pay the reduced amount for a short while.

If the appeal is refused just pay it sharpish before the fine increases. If you leave it it will end up with a collection agency taking you to court for payment and adding shit loads of fees.

Good Luck.
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"THOSE WHO RISK NOTHING, DO NOTHING, ACHIEVE NOTHING, BECOME NOTHING."

[Mrs Kickstart]

Hi,

I am pretty sure you can park in a cycle bay unless it is specificly prohibited. As pointed out above your taxation class is bicycle.

From the photo you were not obstructing a walkway. I am sure the stuff about it was on here but the sever is to busy to search, it may be worth a trawl an appropriate time.

In the meantime start your appeal letter.

Regards
C
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Help fight the safety camera partnerships -- www.pepipoo.com

[kb-zxr]

Yeah I think I read somewhere that if it is not in a walkway ie something to do with railing and pedestrian access, you should be OK.

Good move taking a photo, might help with the appeal. Print it off and send it with the letter.

[Whosthedaddy]

A couple of times recently, I have been unsure where the hell to park the bike. Do I try and park in a parking space, on the curb side, near a wall?

On a bike you cant 'pay and display' as someone could nick the ticket?

Can wanker clampers have the ability to clamp a bike if parked in a dodgy place according to them?
____________________
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[carlnicholson...]

By the way, there is no requirement for the make, model, or tax disk number to be on the ticket, these are just 'supporting' items. It's the reg that matters.

Removing your tax disk while on a 'publically accessible' road means you are using the vehicle without tax, wardens in some areas can do you for that aswell. The police LOVE doing people for that.

If you put a cover over the bike, the warden couldn't touch it, and can't issue, as there is no reg, so he would need to call for a Police Officer to issue a fine, and the likelihood of that happening is slim.

For god sake appeal though, I was told directly to issue illegal fines, the company hoped that the victim would just pay and not appeal. I refused to issue, and was then sacked for it.

You are dealing with absolute scheming scumbags, don't let them win. If your appeal is refused, don't take it further, as then you may have to pay them more. The sooner you pay after appeal, the less of your hard earned goes to the scumbags.
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"THOSE WHO RISK NOTHING, DO NOTHING, ACHIEVE NOTHING, BECOME NOTHING."

[stinkwheel]

You need to look very carefully at the ticket. What exact offence did they put down? Did they get the make, model and colour of your bike correct? Is the date and time correct?

You could have a bit of a problem if the sign (see attached) is what I think it is (ie. no parking at any time), although it should be on a grey pole if it is.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Whosthedaddy]

[carlnicholson...]

The sign doesn't need to be affixed to a pole. A wall if fine, and it can be at any height.

A fine can't be legally issued to a pushbike, it would have no legal standing, however you may be surprised that a ticket can be issued on a skip!
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"THOSE WHO RISK NOTHING, DO NOTHING, ACHIEVE NOTHING, BECOME NOTHING."

[carlnicholson...]

Actually, in the bottom centre of the pic, you can see one line coming away from the kerb. That means;

'NO LOADING BETWEEN PRESCRIBED HOURS'.

The sign would say 'NO LOADING BETWEEN (time) to (time)'.

Basically, Double yellows give you 2 to 5 minutes to load or unload, these yellow lines sticking out mean you can't stop at all.

The restriction is valid from the centreline of the road to the building line, meaning the the pavement is restricted aswell. Might be a stumbling block for your appeal. However, there should be a solid single yellow line to support it.

Still appeal though, you won't have to pay more if you lose, just as long as you pay sharpish.

Ring me on 07716838255 if you want anymore advice.
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"THOSE WHO RISK NOTHING, DO NOTHING, ACHIEVE NOTHING, BECOME NOTHING."

[Vincey B]

That building im parked next to is a theatre, and that sign is put up by them as there are doors which open outwards to allow set to be loaded in, and you can see where the doors are and that im obviously not blocking them.

Also the council dont attach signs to private buildings, there is also a possibility that im parked on the theatres property.

Will send a very polite letter explaining all my reasons to the council tomorrow as well as a copy of the picture.

Thanks for all your help!

[stinkwheel]

As far as I was aware, a proper road sign as allowed under Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 must be affixed to a grey pole, paralell to the road and within a certain distance of all parts of the area to which the sign relates.

The signs that clamping companies use to defraud members of the public are a different matter, I am talking about the 'official' signs used by councils on the public highway.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[R6jonny]

[carlnicholson...]

I'm not an anorak cheeky! I am ashamed to say, I was a Warden.

A sign fitted by the council doesn't have to be fitted to a post, just as long as it is clearly visible. The reason that they are often attached to posts is that they cannot be affixed to private property, so either a street light or post has to be installed to make it legal.

They are sometimes fixed to fences, if it is a public item, i.e. council buliding, school, street sign, or any other item of roadside furniture that is publically owned. You are right though, it doe's have to be within a certain distance though. Normally this is locally determined, but as a reference, if it is in sight, then it is legal.
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"THOSE WHO RISK NOTHING, DO NOTHING, ACHIEVE NOTHING, BECOME NOTHING."

[LUXY DJ]

intresting having a warden on ere

but saying that you can help with loop-holes,etc

cause you saying about the 2-5min double yellows..NOW THATS INTRESTING cause i needed to stop somewere outside were there was double yellows & there was also a warden & when i said it is alright to stop here aint it just gotta run in drop something off & im gone again?(courier) & he said no yuo cant stop there @ all & then said you can go over there though(other side of road WITH DOUBLE YELLOWS still there ) so i didnt stop there cause i was unsure but if you say its 2-5mins then i could of EASILY done it in time

so your 100% sure about this yea? i can see you gettnig alot of pm's also can you do a write up like #

e.g red route = NO stopping
double yellow = 2-5mins
& SO ON?
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(FAR FAR from standard) www.gixerjunkies.net

[Vincey B]

That building im parked next to is a theatre, and that sign is put up by them as there are doors which open outwards to allow set to be loaded in, and you can see where the doors are and that im obviously not blocking them.

Also the council dont attach signs to private buildings, there is also a possibility that im parked on the theatres property.

Will send a very polite letter explaining all my reasons to the council tomorrow as well as a copy of the picture.

Thanks for all your help!

[stinkwheel]

You have to remember that most council parking wardens (as opposed to proper traffic wardens who are employed by the police) do not know what they are talking about. They ticket anything they think they might get away with to make their quota and hope people don't know enough to appeal them.

My brother has received and sucessfully appealed seven parking tickets in Edinburgh. In one case he got a written appology from the parking warden because she blatantly lied about having put a ticket on the car (I was there and she never got within 10 yards of the car, we kept driving off and coming back again, we supplied six written statements to this fact).

I also saw one in Edinburgh hand a guy a parking ticket through the window of his car when he was midway through a 3-point turn. I gave him my name and address for if he wanted to appeal it and bollocked the parking warden ("You just assulted him, and I am a witness.").

If you imply you are prepared to take the case to court as a point of general principle (which I now would as I can afford to), they back down PDQ.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[carlnicholson...]

Stinkwheel, you are absolutley right. Council traffic wardens are employed by a private company on contract. Thay are fully trained on a Police approved course for a couple of weeks, but, they are often issuing illegal tickets (with the support of the company) and make many mistakes.

They are seriously pressured into issuing more and more tickets. If their is doubt over whether it would be legal to issue or not, they are told to just issue it.

Thats why you should ALWAYS appeal.
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"THOSE WHO RISK NOTHING, DO NOTHING, ACHIEVE NOTHING, BECOME NOTHING."

[carlnicholson...]

Luxy dj, double or single yellows give you 2 mintutes time, or 5 minutes loading time (as long as active loading is taking place). A single yellow line must have a time plate telling you when it is active.

The traffic warden can extend the 5 mins to 20 if they feel you need it. However, if you are carrying anything heavy, i.e., it takes more than one person to lift, or is dangerous, i.e. gas bottles or glass, then you LEGALLY have as long as you need.

Tell your courier mate to carry a small pane of glass, and then just say that this is what he is delivering.

If the double or single yellows are accompanied by a kerb marking, then between certain hours, you cannot stop at all. These times must be displayed on a time plate within reasonable distance.

If there are two kerb markings, then you cannot stop at all, for any reason (other than an emergency), at any time.
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"THOSE WHO RISK NOTHING, DO NOTHING, ACHIEVE NOTHING, BECOME NOTHING."