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| Kickstart |
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Kickstart
The Oracle
Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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 Posted: 19:11 - 20 Mar 2006  Post subject: Government admit laser speed guns inaccurate |
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Hi
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=380255&in_page_id=1770
| Daily Mail wrote: |
Speed guns do lie
By SUE REID, Daily Mail
08:31am 18th March 2006
Police speed guns do make mistakes, the Government has admitted for the first time.
The errors mean that thousands of motorists have potentially lost their licences and even their livelihoods on false grounds.
Almost a million drivers are on the verge of bans after being repeatedly snapped by 3,500 mobile devices across England and Wales.
The Home Office and the police have always insisted that the speed guns - which are held by hand or mounted on a tripod - do not lie.
But that is contradicted by a letter from Geoffrey Biddulph, the senior Home Office civil servant in charge of policing Britain's roads.
In it, he states clearly: "We do accept in certain atypical circumstances a device may be capable of producing inaccurate readings."
The letter was sent to Barry Culshaw, a Hampshire solicitor who has defended scores of motorists unfairly trapped by the cameras.
He has sent the Home Office a damning dossier showing how the cameras and their operators make mistakes. He says that the most unreliable guns, which use laser technology, should now be ditched by the Government.
A Daily Mail investigation last year revealed the full extent of the flaws in the devices.
Our tests showed that the most popular of the guns - the LTI 20.20 Ultralyte 100 - gave erratic results even when operated strictly according to instructions.
It recorded a wall travelling at 44 mph, an empty road doing 33 mph and a parked car managing 22 mph. A bicycle - being ridden at just 5mph - was said to have been doing 66mph.
Most of the mistakes stemmed from the gun's wide beam picking up readings from overtaking cars and parked vehicles. Reflections from the road surface, hoardings, fences and even traffic signs also produced errors.
If the gun was not held firmly on the target - itself a difficult task - 'slippage' led to faulty readings. A movement of as little as the width of a human hair was enough to create mistakes.
Our investigation was monitored by one of the country's leading laser experts, Dr Michael Clark.
Only this week, in what is now being viewed as a landmark case, a motorist accused of speeding at 109mph along the M6 toll road in Staffordshire was cleared by a judge because of an error by a laser gun or its police handlers.
Car salesman Stewart Walker, 37, defended himself at Stoke magistrates court because he could not afford the £1,400 in fees charged by a solicitor.
He told the judge that he was driving at exactly 70mph when he was snapped by an LTI Ultralyte last June.
'This is a huge admission from the Home Office'
As the officer squeezed the trigger Mr Walker was overtaken by a BMW sports car which then pulled in front of his own saloon.
Mr Walker asked the officer, in court to give evidence, if the reflection of the faster car could have been picked up by the camera's laser beam by mistake to give the extraordinarily high reading. The officer said yes.
Mr Walker, from Norfolk, handed the judge a copy of the Mail investigation, published last October. The judge read it before declaring that Mr Walker should have the case against him dropped. His costs will now be paid by the police.
After the hearing, Mr Walker said: "I told the judge that I thought the gun had taken a reading from another car.
"I have been worried for months about losing my licence even though I had done nothing wrong or dangerous at all."
Motoring organisations have consistently said that the cameras are not fault-free.
Some observers have called for speed guns to be scrapped altogether because of the flaws.
Paul Smith, head of Safe-Speed, a group which campaigns against the spread of mobile cameras, said: "This is a huge admission from the Home Office.
"Now the Government has finally confessed that a problem exists, they must withdraw the devices and make arrangements to compensate those convicted or fined on the basis of unreliable evidence.
"Five million motorists have been convicted or paid a fixed penalty in the past five years. Now we know that many have not broken any law at all."
Mark McArthur-Christie, policy director of the British Driving Association, said: "The public are beginning to mistrust the police because of the unfairness of the cameras which trap the innocent."
More than two million motorists are expected to receive speed camera tickets this year. If each is fined £60, the total profits from the cameras in 2005-2006 will be £118million. The money goes to police forces, road safety groups and courts that hear speeding cases.
The Home Office declined to comment last night. |
All the best
Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing |
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| jay_666 |
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jay_666
World Chat Champion
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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Posted: 19:14 - 20 Mar 2006  Post subject: |
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This was in MCN wasn't is? They pointed a speedgun at a stationary bike and drove a car nearby and it said the bike was doing about 40mph 
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| Mrs Kickstart |
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Mrs Kickstart
Brolly Dolly
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
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| Posted: 19:21 - 20 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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Hi,
They have been known to be rubbish for ages but this is the first the goverment have addmitted it .
Any one been found guilty after pleading not guilty may have cause for appeal if they were done by one of thease.
The crown will have a problem as at Cardiff Crown Court - the proceedings were recorded – and, under oath, the Crown’s independent expert witness Mr Garratt stated that it is impossible for the LTi 20-20 to record an indurate speed-measurement against a moving vehicle.
Mr Garratt is the sole importer of the LTI Dodgyscope so no conflict of interests there them 
Regards
C
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| LondonBiker |
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LondonBiker
Renault 5 Driver
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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| killa |
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killa
Won't Shut Up
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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| Posted: 10:38 - 21 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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It’s all very well, but they still don’t give a fu*k do they.
I am struggling to fu*king live since I had to pay the hideous prices for lessons and test etc, more people banned unfairly, unexpectedly is going to get the country into more debt.
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Bike:- Yamaha TRX850 | Killas Biking History | Killas Gaming History | Killas autmotive history |
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| Jack_Cheese |
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Jack_Cheese
World Chat Champion
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
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| Posted: 12:14 - 21 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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Killa, didn't you get done by a gatso? in which case this article would have no relevance.
If more people knew about the inaccuracies, i'm sure a lot more people would get off. Too many people caught by the devices never question their reliability. Those who have challenged the reliability of the equipment, rather than whether they were speeding or not, seem to have got off scott free.
Mind you, the one saving grace is that they're easily jammed with an automatic garage door sensor fitted to your bumper. Lovely 
Jack
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| byke95 |
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byke95
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Joined: 25 Mar 2004
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| Kickstart |
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Kickstart
The Oracle
Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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| Posted: 12:52 - 21 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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Hi
The unit that they have shown is inaccurate is used in many mobile Gatso units.
These devices are meant to confirm the opinion of a police officer of a vehicles speed. As such it seems reasonable that the police officer should enter their estimate of the speed before taking a reading. If this was done then any unit that was consistantly giving different readings by more than a small margin could be sent for recalibration and tickets scraped (and the same for the operator).
All the best
Keith
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| killa |
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killa
Won't Shut Up
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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| Posted: 14:20 - 21 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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I was caught by a van camera.
I’m sure they use a camera which has been said to be inaccurate, you can’t get a decent result from aiming at the rear of a bike.
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| LondonBiker |
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LondonBiker
Renault 5 Driver
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 23:41 - 21 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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Heck, ive paid my cars value in tickets since owning it.
And also a court fine for breaking a traffic wardens ticket machine on his head |
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| carlnicholson... |
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carlnicholson...
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 18 years, 40 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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