Pre marital/cohabiting agreements

[Hex]

Currently my other half and I are looking into these and ideally we would like a template/example one so we can come up with one for us.

The obvious idea is to protect us both if the worst ever did happen.

Does anyone have any experience with these and or examples of them?
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[JodieWodie]

Nah, and I don't think I would have one

Seems a bit 'cold' to me, although sensible maybe

I am a bit too odd to think sensibly
I prefer to live life on the edge
(and be broke with it) ha ha


I am guessing it would have to be drawn up 'properly' to mean anything ?[/list]
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[Hex]

[LustyLew]

I believe WH Smith sell kits for setting up a contract between a lodger and home owner. Perhaps they'll do something similar.

If not, your solicitor should be able to sort something out, it will just cost.

I have access to almost every legal form produced in England and Scotland, I'll have a look tomorrow and see if I can knock out a PDF template for you to use...
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Like a Yorkie - I'm not for the girls

[Robby]

If you find something, post it up on here, I want a similar thing.

[LustyLew]

In the mean time here's a few helpful links:

https://www.channel4.com/health/microsites/F/family/rights/cohabit.html
https://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/family_parent/family/cohabitation_and_marriage_legal_differences.htm
https://www.cohabitation-agreement.co.uk/home2-1.html

I'll have a deeper rummage tomorrow.
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Like a Yorkie - I'm not for the girls

[Hex]

Best thing I've came across is this Link.

If you could see if this coincides with anything you can find that will be great.

TBH what I have found there is just what I was looking for as it gives a general guide to what we need to consider. Hopefully it will be of some use to you as well Robby (really has been too long since I've caught up with you mate.... you've changed. ).

Interested to see what peoples opinions of such things are though.
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The BCF's very own Party boy! Though he's getting old and feeling it!
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[Steve H]

Here's something I've quickly knocked up for you Hex

Before we move into insert property details here there are a few ground rules that as a loving girlfriend you are obliged to abide by. Any breach of the following will result in the dissolution of a relationship that I consider (at this present time) to be the best sexual one that I've ever experienced...

1. The toilet seat should be left up at ALL times. The reason? If I come home bladdered I enjoy the ease in which I can p*ss into the bowl from 8 feet away without even having to enter the bathroom to lift the lid up. Closure of the seat will result in me pissing in the sink/bath/bed.

2. I reserve the right to have Stella for breakfast without you frowning. Any downward movement of your eyebrows when I crack a can open at 8 in the morning will result in me pouring myself a whisky chaser over my Sugar Puffs.

3. I like football (despite my support of Huddersfield Town), Sky Sports will be on our television 24/7. There are 3 exceptions to this rule…
a. When I want to watch my special sexy DVD’s
b. When The Naked Chef is on and I think your culinary skills need a bit of work
c. When I want to get in touch with my feminine side and I watch an episode of Friends

4. I walk around the house naked and I expect you to do the same. If I see you in underwear that has no lace/thong/peep holes then I will immediately abide by rule 3/a until you change into something more in keeping with the spirit of these rules. In some cases I will expect you to wear...
a. Stockings
b. Suspenders
c. Camisole
d. Huddersfield Town Football Kit
e. Dirty Boiler Suit and answer to the name of Terry

5. The following things should be on a plate whenever I want them…
a. Chips
b. Skittles
c. Choc Ices
d. Pickled Onion Monster Munch
e. Curry
f. Sex

6. I come and go as I please and expect you to be at my beck and call. You should have two numbers programmed into your phone...
a. Mine
b. Takeaway

7. Monday is 'Lads Night' at the house. All my friends will come round to watch 3/a and I expect you to be dressed in 4/a/b and serve us 5/a/b/c/d/e when they leave I shall expect 2 hours of 5/f

8. These rules are subject to change at any time.
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[Hex]

Why thank you Steve...

Im sat here pissing myself with laughter, and you soooooooo no thats going in as an appendix. Just a couple of changes to be made, like JD instead of beer stuff and kickboxing etc instead of football. But generally its spot on.
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[nrml76]

I have a verbal agreement with my girlfriend, that should we split up, she can have my house, as long as she pays me half of what mortgage I've paid till date. Having known her for sometime, I am confident that should things go wrong, we would both work things out in a sensible manner, even if we couldn't stand the sight of each other anymore. I would probably end up losing a lot more than her, but thats life; men get the bad deals always.

[bazza]

[Suzuki]

Having spoken to my solicitor sister, I have the following information for you:

[Hex]

Its actually a cohabiting one were after not a prenup, simply because as soon as we marry the law takes over on that front and we will then have rights as partners.

While cohabiting, a partner has no legal rights, there is no such thing as common law wife (its a myth). This agreement will help explain what is whos and what will happen to joint stuff (ie bank accounts and possessions bought together etc) as well as show (if need be) in a court what was agreed by both parties and what they wanted to happen.
The fact is this isn't only to be used if things go wrong, its about how we'll live together.

Your sister is right in that its not enforcable under english law (a prenup that is) but courts will increasingly take cohabiting/living agreements into account and uphold them as the agreement is a commercial contract in reality, and especially since this isn't a prenup where marriage rights will apply.

Although I can see why some people may get worried about such things I find it sad that people think that its a way of fleecing the other partner or can question a relationships stability because they may want to draw one up.

All its doing is clarifying things from the outset, also been able to draw one up simply shows that your relationship is mature/stable/realistic enough to understand that things can go wrong and also help identifying those little things which both sides may have simply overlooked i.e who's responsible for say the gas bill for example.
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The BCF's very own Party boy! Though he's getting old and feeling it!
Monkey hanger, Born and bred
My little photo portfolio

[LustyLew]

Find a bloke and have a same sex partnership.

Well, I've been rummaging all day through our archives but I can't find anything. This would suggest that there is not a 'court' form for this process.
Only thing I recall seeing online last night is that you have to have seporate solicitors representing each of you.

I didn't get a chance to pop into WH Smith at lunch, so I'm not 100% Sure if they'll do a package to help you...

Sorry mate.
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Like a Yorkie - I'm not for the girls

[Hex]

No worrys, have what I want now. We both have separate solicitors as well so we will both get whatever we come up with checked on both sides.

Thanks for taking the time though.
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The BCF's very own Party boy! Though he's getting old and feeling it!
Monkey hanger, Born and bred
My little photo portfolio

[msgander]

Well Party Boy, I think you are being very sensible having been on the losing end of some cash to an ex in the past and having to repay crap that wasnt mine (long story).

Both get a solicitor as long as sols witness it should be enforcable to some degree.



Bit like me and goose really, I own rights to filling the washing machine with horse hair and he owns rights to putting what he likes in the garage, its all good stuff!
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[colin1]

i had a cohabiting aggreement with my ex but we never made it legal

the deal was, the house was bought with my money as deposit, and i made the mortgage payments and most of the bills, she payed me a bit less rent than what she had paid where she lived before

when it ended this meant that I had not lost out and had had a paying tenant.

however the 'its my house' attitude played a part in the demise of the relationship. She did accept that was what she agreed to though. She wanted us to be like a normal couple and make joint decisions which would have meant her steamrollering me into her getting her way. She lived with me for 2 years, so i think its possible she could have made some sort of claim on the house if she had wanted to as I never had a tenancy agreement.

if we had started off equal partners, it would have all gone her way though as she was strong willed and not afraid to shout about it. As it is, Ive got one room with pink and purple walls and another room with bits of plaster missing when she decided to do a bit of wallpaper stripping when I was away for the weekend.

a mate got married and they started off on equal terms, with her suddenly getting an equal share of the house he had bought and paid for, then she took over until he felt a stranger in his own home as the mother in law was round all the time and she and the wife would ignore him.

equality is a bit like communism, sounds great, but the powerful one ends up stomping over everyone else. so agreeing to some ground rules ahead of time is a good idea even if you dont make it legal. Im sure that both of you are the type who obey rules and dont break them, so you probably dont really need solicitors, but it will be more reassuring if something does go wrong.

Im not really sure what your situation is. Buying a place together ? renting a place together ? Joint account separate account ?

Many women think its normal to max out credit cards all the time, so dont get a joint account. For buying a place together, you get both names on the deeds, but it gets tricky if you split and neither wants to leave as both want to keep the house. One couple I know of started a hate campaign to get the other to leave so they would be left with the house. It got quite ugly.

If you are renting and dont have joint accounts, I dont think it will be too bad as long as rent can still be paid with one person living there if the other moves out. Whether the landlord has both your names, or one of you sublets to the other, is up to you.

You dont really know a woman until you have lived with her for at least a year. Have fun
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colin1 is officially faster than god

[Hex]

We're all sorted now, like said we both have our own legal representation anyway, her working with a load of soliciters and me having a dodgy family.

Just so you know Colin, the house is mine, it has been for the past 5 years and part of the agreement will state that no matter what she pays in rent(if you will) or upkeep of the house, the house will always remain mine and she has no claim till we either buy together or we get married.

Some of the agreement shows what we put into the joint account, what its used for and what will happen if the worst did happen, and luckily she aint the type of woman you know, tbh I don't know many that think its normal to max a credit card out. She's been told in the past if she wanted one of my credit cards she was allowed, but has happily turned them down. She's very independent and careful with money.

In this day and age it makes a lot of sence to protect yourselves. When I look at the agreement it shows in essence I bring everything and she brings nothing, yet it was her that wanted it to make sure I was protected and we both knew the score.

Oh and Sticky, I can still party with the best of them pet
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The BCF's very own Party boy! Though he's getting old and feeling it!
Monkey hanger, Born and bred
My little photo portfolio

[colin1]

i think you want a tenancy agreement then. You as landlord, her as tenant.
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colin1 is officially faster than god

[Hex]

Nope we wanted a cohabitation/living together agreement which is what we have now in progress.

Covers a lot more than just the house etc.

By the way Col are all the women lin Dudley like the ones you meet? If so how do I get them to max out their cards in my shop.
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The BCF's very own Party boy! Though he's getting old and feeling it!
Monkey hanger, Born and bred
My little photo portfolio

[colin1]

whats your shop sell ? i remember you talking about starting a business but didnt know u had done it

impulse buys seem to be the thing.
shoes, handbags, its about the shopping experience rather than getting something useful.
its about getting something that implies a sense of status
so any hint of exclusivity such as premium brand, or limited number of thingummies sold special edition etc

i think shoes and hangbags are quite universally appealing to credit card maxing girls so even if your shop wasnt in dudley, the formula would work.

when i introduced my ex to ebay she became transfixed with shoe porn and handbag porn

so getting stuff off ebay into a shop for the girls who dont have ebay would be good

My ex would quite happily look through hundreds of shoes on ebay for an hour or so and she would get brands she knew of so she knew what the quality was like.

arguably im just as bad with bikes, but its easier to stock a shop with handbags and shoes than it is with bikes.

handbags are probably better as you dont have to stock all the different sizes of shoe
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colin1 is officially faster than god

[Annabella]

Ok. Jon's sister here (a solicitor). I gather that you and your girlfriend are talking about some kind of agreement to govern the financial and practical aspects of sharing a home (and life) together. Whilst this may assist the two of you in deciding on your personal "rules" before taking the step to live together, any such agreement would be almost entirely pointless from any other perspective. A contract is only worth the paper it is written on if it can be relied on by an aggrieved party to seek enforcement of its terms by a neutral third party (a court, tribunal etc). The type of agreement you are talking about would not be enforceable in this way. At best, the agreement could amount to evidence of your intentions, but a court would not be obliged to consider it at all, and there would be other admissible evidence in any event.

My advice would be to sit down together and draw up a budget of monthly expenses. Then divide these between the two of you (e.g. one to be responsible for paying council tax bills, another for insurance, another for gas etc etc) so that you have as near as possible a fair split as regards contracts with external parties for payment. Then set up a joint account and agree a fair amount for you each to pay into it to cover other joint expenses (supermarket shopping, petrol etc etc). If you liked you could make an inventory of who owns what at the time of moving in together. You could add to it new purchases (made independently) over the course of your relationship. Joint purchases could be added to another list and divided fairly if and when the time came. Both of these lists would be useful assuming that you both act reasonably at the time of a split i.e. the lists would be an aide memoire, but would not be enforceable. For example, if your girlfriend decided to ignore the "who owns what" list and bugger off with your White Stripes CD in two years' time you can wave the list all you like as you chase her down the path but it won't do you any good! You could call the police and report a theft but they would probably laugh at you. You could take her to the small claims court but they would (a) laugh and (b) charge you more in costs than it would be worth. Alternatively (and realistically) you would either resign yourself to a White Stripes-free CD collection or go and buy yourself a new one whilst muttering about your thieving ex..................
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[colin1]

as we have a solicitor in the house how does this pre-emptive strike on divorces losses look ?

a bloke is about to get divorced, and sells all his assets off to his mates for pennies

when it comes to dividing assetts, he has nothing as he has sold it all for nothing

when divorce settlement is over, he buys his stuff back from his mates for pennies

would this work ?

how would the law stop it working ?

whats the best thing that could be done which would be similar ?
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colin1 is officially faster than god

[Nath]

Surely half of everything he "sold" to his mates would belong to his wife, hence she could take him to court to get her share of what those things were worth?
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[queen of string]

In an age where the reality is that your relationship may not last for ever as people have so much freedom and choice now, it seems ridiculous to me that you cannot protect your assets. By my own hard work and effort I have some assets (enough to keep me when I'm old, hopefully). Choosing to co habit with someone and having that relationship subsequently fail could have really dire consequences for me. Guess we'd ahve to ahve neighbouring houses instead. i think your plan is a good one hex but the reality of the protection it will afford you is alarming.
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