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asta1 |
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asta1 Scooby Slapper
Joined: 03 Dec 2015 Karma :
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Posted: 11:58 - 06 May 2018 Post subject: |
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jnw010 wrote: | M.C wrote: | Firearm holders are already targeted by criminals. |
I was genuinely not aware of this, and am intrigued. How is this targeting undertaken? |
The principle is that crooks look for people who fit the demographic for firearm ownership, exhibit signs of gun support (BASC stickers in their car etc) or get a mate in the medical profession to get up records of suspected firearms owners and check for the appropriate 'tag' (all FAC or SGC holders are noted as firearm holders on their GP notes). They then wait till they fuck off out and try and take guns from cars or their person.
As a general rule though, this occurs at such a low level that it isn't an issue at all.
Heres the total firearm crime stats from a few years ago.
https://publications.parliament.uk/p.../447/44705.htm
A very rough and dirty estimate for incidence could be provided thusly:
Table 1 in the link above documenting the total number of firearms crimes by type for 2008/9 suggests that of the 14,250 crimes documented, 2,422 could concievably have been sourced from license holders (619 shotguns, 1803 rifles). All other classes (imitation weapons, handguns, air rifles) are either unrestricted or banned. That gives an absolute maximum figure of 17.0% of offences which could be linked to certificate holders.
However, based on the Cullen report [See ref 19 in the link], of the 152 cases where the weapons origin was known, 14% involved legitimately held firearms. This, having been conducted in 1992-1994, may no longer be accurate, but serves as a reasonable baseline for what percentage of the absolute maximum 17% figure discussed above are related to legally sourced firearms.
So, 14% x 17% = 2.38% of the total case load could be assumed to be linked to legal weapons, based on this single data point.
2.38% x 14,250 = 339, so it's reasonable to assume that in the region of 340ish crimes per year involve the use of legally held weapons. Of these cases, approx. 50% involved the weapon being discharged, and of those instances where it was, approx 7.4% will lead to a death. Based on these stats therefore, 13 deaths a year can be attributed to firearms sourced from certificate holders, including instances of suicide by the lawful owner . For over a million guns held and used legally in the UK every year. it's worth noting that suicide is by far the most common crime involving legally held guns, and the only one harmed is usually the legal owner him/herself.
Interestingly, the original 14,250 figure for firearms related crime apparently makes up 0.3% of total recorded crimes for the time period examined. Extrapolating this suggests a incidence level of recorded crime of 4,750,000 per annum. Applying the proposed 340 crimes to this figure suggests that crimes involving legally held firearms account for (7.16x10^-5)% of the crime statistics, which, if I might say so myself, can probably be best described as 'statistically insignificant'. ____________________ CBT Acquired: 09/07/2015
A2 Licence Passed: 12/02/16
Current Bike: Yamaha MT-07 bought 02/07/16 |
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Diggs |
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Diggs World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 12:54 - 06 May 2018 Post subject: |
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I think the Romans had it right - collect all the criminals together, put them in stadiums and let them stab each other with sharp items for public amusement. Forget 'Celebrity Cooking on Ice', this is the future... ____________________ Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting... |
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :
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Posted: 13:14 - 06 May 2018 Post subject: |
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"Knife and gun crime rockets across England and Wales – as police numbers hit historic lows
Offences 'disproportionately concentrated' in London and other cities
Reported knife crime has seen a 21 per cent year-on-year spike across England and Wales, new figures show.
Gun crime has also seen a 20 per cent rise amid a surge in incidents being reported to police.
Forces registered 37,443 offences involving a knife or sharp instrument in the year ending September 2017 – the highest tally since comparable records started in the 12 months to March 2011. Gun crime saw 6,694 recorded offences."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/knife-gun-crime-stats-latest-england-wales-rise-increase-a8177161.html |
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mentalboy |
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mentalboy World Chat Champion
Joined: 05 May 2012 Karma :
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :
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Posted: 16:00 - 06 May 2018 Post subject: |
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
Joined: 29 Sep 2015 Karma :
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Posted: 18:18 - 07 May 2018 Post subject: |
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Reggie Yates in Chicago (no not the musical) raised an interesting point; apparently they have quite tight gun laws/no gun stores but firearms are smuggled in from other states.
Also I couldn't help notice the 9 killings (8 of them black) by officers stat, compared to 468 murders in the city (in 2015), which rose to 771 in 2016. It's another reminder of what BLM are protesting against |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 19:44 - 07 May 2018 Post subject: |
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By and large, people:
Off themselves with their own household's legally held firearms.
Murder up other people with unlegal shooters that they'll get irrespective of any laws prohibiting them.
Use guns defensively at 1.6x to 10x the rate that they're used offensively by criminals.
There are three separate debates to be had here.
On balance, I'd rather have a shooter in the house than not.
However, what's stopping me isn't the Man, it's the Missus. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 21:12 - 07 May 2018 Post subject: |
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Kawasaki Jimbo wrote: | [Other numbers] |
And yet the CDC still reckon that legally held USian guns are used defensively, to stop crime, at a significantly higher rate than they're used to commit it. They sound pretty racist.
Meanwhile Gun Free Londonistan is racking up an unlegal shooting every 5 hours or so, with legally held guns being used to deter or defend law abiding citizens from stabby-acid-muggers approximately once every never.
How many more, uh... "innocent" #BlackLivesMatter must die before Trump is impeached? ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Posted: 23:11 - 07 May 2018 Post subject: |
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mentalboy |
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mentalboy World Chat Champion
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
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Posted: 23:31 - 07 May 2018 Post subject: |
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I believe that things have changed since those articles were written.
"Police trying to prevent terrorists from obtaining guns warn a rise in parcels being sent to Britain due to online shopping is helping criminals to camouflage firearms being smuggled into the country.
Dave Thompson, chief constable of West Midlands police and the national lead for countering firearms, said there had been a surge in the number of guns circulating in the UK.
In a Guardian interview, he said firearms were being reactivated overseas and then ordered for delivery into the UK. “Traditionally you’d have seen maybe six or seven years ago we’d be stopping people at Dover with 10 Baikals [a make of firearm] concealed in compartments in the car. That’s become less of a feature. What’s become more of a feature is weapons through the fast parcel system, individual items coming through.” "
"He said criminals were trying a range of tactics to avoid detection. “We have to watch a trend of disassembling the weapons and sending them in component parts.” "
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/28/online-shopping-boom-criminals-smuggle-guns-uk-police-chief
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/police-seize-79-lethal-firearms-13272544
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12177409/Web-shopping-system-used-to-smuggle-guns-into-Britain-police-chief-warns.html
It sounds much safer to get a gun into this country by sending it with DHL / UPS / Fedex / etc etc where it'll just be one cardboard box among the thousands of boxes of crap that people buy on the internet everyday than it is to have someone carry it through customs. |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 01:12 - 08 May 2018 Post subject: |
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I have some flintlock and matchlock pistols. The flintlock dualling pistol set I have would give you 1 shot per gun, accurate to about 100 feet and take a minute to load. I think I'd prefer a shotgun. ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition |
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :
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Posted: 02:12 - 08 May 2018 Post subject: |
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Someone handed in an AK47 in Trowbridge last year on the first day of a gun amnesty.
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/ak-47-assault-rifle-handed-771963
Admittedly it was a deactivated one so not illegal and can be bought from websites such as this one.
Even if you know someone who has the right machines and knowledge to reactivate one of those, getting your hands on some ammo must be a lot trickier.
As hard as it might be to acquire a gun in the UK, if you know a drug dealer then they'll know a more serious drug dealer who'll know someone even more serious etc etc. Unless the original source is someone growing weed in their spare room then it'll be coming from people involved in supply on a commercial scale.
So if the stars happen to align, you might know a guy that knows a guy who has a contact that could know someone that might know someone who's into guns. Of course, there's every chance that you'd just end up being robbed at gunpoint making the whole thing an exercise in futility. |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 09:34 - 08 May 2018 Post subject: |
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The rights or wrongs of where the guns are coming from in $CURRENT_YEAR (M.C. is wrong, Ste is right) aside, they are coming, and they are being used.
44% rise since 2014 in unlegal uses (2542 vs 1755 in London alone, seven a day. Grauniad link, therefore faxtual) .
0% rise in legal use for self defence by the law abiding citizenry (0 vs 0)
Acid-stabbings by Dindus who don't give a stuff about dem laws and that: https://i.imgur.com/FDYkEP7.gif
I'm still not seeing the factual problem with the God Emperor's pronouncement. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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Johnnythefox |
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Johnnythefox Traffic Copper
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
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Posted: 12:39 - 08 May 2018 Post subject: |
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Whitey also deserves a gun. |
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- Super Spammer
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Posted: 12:47 - 08 May 2018 Post subject: |
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Kawasaki Jimbo wrote: |
In the context of the speech, why do you think Trump mentioned the UK knife problem? |
Because it's shows that Dindu will Dindu, not matter what weapons are controlled more strictly.
I can't see further regulation on guns, knives and acid making them suddenly get an education, a full time job, get them off benefits and start actually adding something positive to society. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG. |
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 30 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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