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Electric mopeds. 4kw equiv to 50cc. Need a cbt. not elec bic

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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 09:54 - 28 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 CPT wrote:
linuxyeti wrote:
May as well get used to it, electric is the future !!


Not until they work out how to exchange or charge the batteries in a few minutes.

The only electric vehicles usable for distance either have an ICE to generate power or a power rail to run on.


Or cost as much as a house.......

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 11:18 - 28 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
I would advise against buying anything electric powered (bikes or cars); lease them instead. The problem is the technology is moving so quickly, all it'd take is a breakthrough in battery tech 6 months into ownership and your model which was previously cutting edge will become worth peanuts overnight. A lease scheme takes that burden off you . . .
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M.C
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PostPosted: 13:20 - 28 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
ThunderGuts wrote:
I would advise against buying anything electric powered (bikes or cars); lease them instead. The problem is the technology is moving so quickly, all it'd take is a breakthrough in battery tech 6 months into ownership and your model which was previously cutting edge will become worth peanuts overnight. A lease scheme takes that burden off you . . .

I thought the major issue was ending up with an expensive dud battery, and that Nissan etc. were starting to lease batteries to owners.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 13:29 - 28 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
linuxyeti wrote:
M.C wrote:

Err it weighs as much but you'll be small, silent, and slower than most traffic Neutral


May as well get used to it, electric is the future !! There are quite a few super soco's around, and other electric scooters that seem to be doing just fine.

By which you mean ICE will be forced off the roads by legislation leaving electric as the only permitted alternative? That would be an interesting departure from the idea that electric bike tech is on the cusp of meeting ICE range, speed and convenience. Electric won't defeat ICE on merit. Consumers will have to be forced to accept less, which isn't the usual way of technology.
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 28 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:


By which you mean ICE will be forced off the roads by legislation leaving electric as the only permitted alternative? That would be an interesting departure from the idea that electric bike tech is on the cusp of meeting ICE range, speed and convenience. Electric won't defeat ICE on merit. Consumers will have to be forced to accept less, which isn't the usual way of technology.


But, it is getting far closer, look at the Zero line up, with the fast chargers, and the good thing that, the technology can be used with older incarnations, such as the new fast chargers can work on older zero's.

Then there's the new Lightning Strike, which will be about £10k, 150 mph top speed, 150 mile range on a charge, charge up in 35 mins , just enough time for a cuppa, which to be fair after 150 miles riding in 1 go, you're likely to want a cuppa !!

The Super Soco, and the other 50cc equivalents, are already better than the petrol versions, and, available for similar prices compared to petrol equivalents.

The segment missing out, over here at least, is the smaller to medium bike equivalents at affordable prices, but, I doubt it will be that long now.

Personally, I wasn't gong to get another petrol bike, however, I'm probably going to make an exception for a new Royal Enfield Interceptor, in a couple more years when I come to replace the CFMoto, electric will be my preferred option, the range for my occasional commute wil lbe easily covered (120 mile round trip at motorway speeds)
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 15:49 - 28 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightning Strike promises impressive performance but you just know you won’t experience all those figures from a single charge, you’ll have to choose; 150 mph for 10 mins, or 35 min charging but a reduced range (and possibly shortened battery life), or 150 mile range at 40mph.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 15:52 - 28 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't really think electric cars and bikes are viable yet, because as soon as this happens the Government will tax the shit out of them.
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 16:03 - 28 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
bhinso wrote:
I don't really think electric cars and bikes are viable yet, because as soon as this happens the Government will tax the shit out of them.


Of course they are, Renault Zoe, cracking little car, decent range, just a little under 200 miles, cheaper than alot of petrol cars. Nissan Leaf, can get an even greater range.

My missus drives 15 mile return journey to work, furthest any of her family live away is 30 miles, at which point does that not make either of those 2 cars viable?

Of course they'll tax them, same happened with Petrol & Diesel, when banded, at the latest round, hybrids now get taxed, it's a bit of a mute point, funding shortfall has to be made up at some point, whether that's increased fuel levy, and/or ved banding/re-banding.
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 17:27 - 28 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 CPT wrote:


My Brother in Law's Volvo XC90 hybrid developed a fault with the electric motor system a few month's from new. The repair cost would have been £8k if out of warranty.


Isn't that the whole point of having a warranty, or, am I missing something, a rather meaning quote to make..

Renault, and, no doubt others, lease the battery, costs based on usage, however, it does mean, your battery is never out of warranty, other than that the battery is guaranteed for 8 years.
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G
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PostPosted: 18:09 - 28 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
The concept makes a lot of sense for commuting in-town.
Note that 4kw is more akin to a derestricted 50cc 2 stroke, rather than a C50 or similar.

So has the potential for everything bar NSL bike speeds - so should be plenty around town.

If kept decently light for local journeys makes a lot of sense if you're not paying silly money.

ThunderGuts wrote:
The problem is the technology is moving so quickly, all it'd take is a breakthrough in battery tech 6 months into ownership and your model which was previously cutting edge will become worth peanuts overnight. A lease scheme takes that burden off you . . .

Battery technology isn't moving that quickly. We're getting slight incremental advancements
Okay, batteries are a bigger proportion of the price, but you could say similar for phones, laptops and the large variety of other devices that rely on them.
Billions I expect are being spent on the next new thing for battery technology.
It's unlikely anything really significant will come to market in a good few years.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 21:26 - 28 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 CPT wrote:
linuxyeti wrote:
charge up in 35 mins , just enough time for a cuppa,


Providing each service station has enough charge points?

How many vehicles with a range of 400+ miles can a 24 pump petrol forecourt service in 35 minutes, when it takes less than 3 minutes to fill up and pay at pump?

You'd need at least 10 times the number of charge points per equivalent pump X number of pumps (24) X 3 (times less range). On a 24 pump forecourt, that's over 700 charge points to cope with replacing one forecourt.


And the only reason they are viable now (if you think a 60 minute charge time is viable) is that there are so few vehicles. You have a good chance of finding a vacant charge point (if it works).
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 21:41 - 28 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:


And the only reason they are viable now (if you think a 60 minute charge time is viable) is that there are so few vehicles. You have a good chance of finding a vacant charge point (if it works).


OK, missus' use, daily range work & or popping out seeing friends amd family, a maximum of 50 miles, and charging can be done at home overnight, no need to worry about going to a petrol station to fill up.. I would say that's eminently viable..

If my daughter wasn't so keen on her Mash 50, rides it to school, out to visit mates etc, so far doesn't ride over 40 mlies in a day, and, to be fair, almost all rides out on a 50 are highly unlikely to exceed 40miles in a day regularly, for that sort of 'commuting'/riding then a Super Soco and thw WK Bike e-colt, are perfectly viable, again, there would be no need to find a charging station out and about, ample range to make it home and charge it up then..

Personally, I prefer the look of the Zero DS, but that Lightning strike, looks very viable, even for my 120 mile commute, again, this would mean I don't ned to find a 'public' charging point. However, before going down that route, I'd like the RE Interceptor before replacing my commuter bike, so, now probably a couple more years before I replace the TR

So many dinosaur's and modern day King Canute's on here !!
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colin1
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PostPosted: 21:50 - 28 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 CPT wrote:

It's also worth noting that his electric bill went up by almost the same amount as his diesel bill reduced when he upgraded from his old diesel XC90 to the hybrid. They may be cheap for little town cars, but pull a lot of juice to shift nearly 3 tons of 4WD, with engine plus electric motors and batteries.


This is why small electric commuter bikes should make sense.
The 50cc equivalents are just about practical but a 500cc eqivalent would be a lot more flexible.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 21:55 - 28 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
The problem is even the most enthusiastic 'leccy fans here won't actually buy one, it's always "in a couple of years" when it's assumed they'll be viable.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 28 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:

Note that 4kw is more akin to a derestricted 50cc 2 stroke, rather than a C50 or similar.

I think the 4kw electric bikes are restricted to 30mph or possibly in some cases 45mph.
They have peak power of 4kw for acceleration but are expected to output 2kw most of the time.

I think that an aprilia rs50 derestricted can do 60mph.

I don't know how easy it is to derestrict an electric bike but it will kill the range.
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 28 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
The problem is even the most enthusiastic 'leccy fans here won't actually buy one, it's always "in a couple of years" when it's assumed they'll be viable.


Ahh, not true, I roughly buy bikes on rotation, the Mash 400 is the most likely next for replacement, and for that the RE Interceptor is my preferred option. At the moment the CF650TR is running fine, and doing it's job very well indeed, however, that will be replaced by an electric bike when it's time to replace it. Also, I'd like 1 with decent luggage, I can do a full weekly family shop on the TR, oh, and of course, carry my laptop & cameras, the Zero Black Forest shows the most potential in that regard.

We already have a Zoe, and, if my daughter liked the look of any of the current 125 equivalent electric bikes, then she'd be getting 1 when she's 17, but, looks wise she prefers the Keeway Superlight.
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 22:08 - 28 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
colin1 wrote:


I think the 4kw electric bikes are restricted to 30mph or possibly in some cases 45mph.
They have peak power of 4kw for acceleration but are expected to output 2kw most of the time.

I think that an aprilia rs50 derestricted can do 60mph.

I don't know how easy it is to derestrict an electric bike but it will kill the range.


The Super Coco is easy to resrestrict/delimit..

https://supersocoforum.com/forum/tutorials/how-to-delimit-your-super-soco-ts-tc/
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piazza
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PostPosted: 23:20 - 28 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sitcky that video it'll be the question of choice for noobs of the future.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 04:32 - 29 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
linuxyeti wrote:


So many dinosaur's and modern day King Canute's on here !!


Yes, well this dinosaur hopes when he pops his mortal coil his body will turn into oil (as happened with a previous generation of dinosaurs) and power the up to date version of a Bugatti Veyron, not a Nissan fcuking leaf!

Razz
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 04:41 - 29 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Renault Zoe, most basic with no optional extras, 20 grand plus £69 a month with battery hire?

Fuck that.

£69 a month buys me a good percentage of the fuel I use in my diesel guzzling Jaguar and more than my daughter ever puts in her (my Rolling Eyes ) Twingo which cost 6.5 grand new.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 09:07 - 29 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Problems with leccy vehicles is you're shifting the pollution. It's not the vehicle polluting, it's now the generating plants polluting - government are NIMBYs.

If I was the boss of Great Britain (or whatever) I'd be whooping car manufacturers arses and make each and every single one accept a standardised battery system.
That way, a vehicle can travel the country and when low on power head for a battery site. You swap your old pack for another which has been sitting charging waiting for the next vehicle to arrive.
It's done in industry - mining for example. Battery packs are swapped which allows for constant use of machinery.

We're seeing a UK government slap stupid rules and laws onto the people but they've not thought it out (which is normal for them)
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 09:49 - 29 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree that if the industry could make battery standardisation work (will not happen anytime soon) and there were a network of battery storage stations say between all major cities and on every motorway, then battery swapping could work. There'd be problems trying to implement it though and your relying on a 3Rd party to look after/test/charge and replace or repair faulty batteries.

I think with EV use it only works if you're really in control of all that yourself and like others of said you can only do that now because of low take up adoption of EV's. Nows probably a good time to own an EV for daily short trip usage, as you could easily have the only car in your street wanting to plug into the public charge point, or at the charging bay at Sainsburys etc. It could get pretty nasty and brutal out there if or when EV take up exceeds sufficient infrastructure.

As an off topic, has anyone else heard that in addition to diesel DPF issues and costs, that now these small direct injection petrol engines are going to need a GPF fitting to meet the next emissions target, as apparently direct injection petrols engines whilst nice and low on CO2 output, they produce 1000 times more particulate than older Port injected engines. Made me laugh though just how much progress we are making with overcomplicated overstressed modern engines. Laughing
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