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Leadership Contest - why so many rounds?

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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 11:26 - 20 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
Riejufixing wrote:

If we get to the end of October and no-one's managed to prevent it, we will be out with no deal by definition.


And providing they don't do what they normally do and just kick the can further down the road as they've done every time we hit a deadline?


I think Boris would be willing to kick the can down the road, but he is basically a puppet of the ERG and they are only interested in an FTA style deal or no deal. May's deal is a bad deal, it's not just the backstop either, it's a surrender document.

stinkwheel wrote:
It's not game over because it's not MPs who have the final say. The party membership might decide they don't want Boris.


We know how the membership will vote. There were quite a lot of remainers in the Tories but a lot of them have switched their position to being pro-Brexit. They were Eurosceptic before but were concerned about the instability involved in leaving, but now we've voted to leave the stability of the status quo no longer applies. Remain at this stage would cause more chaos than even the most negative relations with the EU would.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 14:23 - 20 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
So Javid is out. It looks like Boris is going to win and I think fair enough, give him a go. He was a leaver before it became 'popular'. It's as simple as this: We will never leave the EU with a good deal. If that happened then all the rest of the countries would be tempted to leave and the EU would fall apart.
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1198
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PostPosted: 15:53 - 21 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
So we are now down to the last two. The first few ‘evictions’ have been pretty speedy so far, however we are now faced with weeks of faffing before one bloke gets the job. Why all the delay? Why not get it sorted now and then they can get on with their bloody proper jobs, the reason the public supposedly elected them - namely running the bloody country? I’m not referring to ‘kicking the can down the road’ purely to waste Brexit time either, isn’t this the standard way of electing a new leader? It’s just that right now there’s a couple of rather important jobs on their ‘to do’ lists.
This isn’t just a criticism of the Conservative Party either. I think more or less the whole elected MPs have behaved disgustingly during the whole Brexit farce.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 23:33 - 21 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
1198 wrote:
So we are now down to the last two. The first few ‘evictions’ have been pretty speedy so far, however we are now faced with weeks of faffing before one bloke gets the job. Why all the delay? Why not get it sorted now and then they can get on with their bloody proper jobs, the reason the public supposedly elected them - namely running the bloody country? I’m not referring to ‘kicking the can down the road’ purely to waste Brexit time either, isn’t this the standard way of electing a new leader? It’s just that right now there’s a couple of rather important jobs on their ‘to do’ lists.
This isn’t just a criticism of the Conservative Party either. I think more or less the whole elected MPs have behaved disgustingly during the whole Brexit farce.


Quite.

It's going to take a month to do 12 scheduled hustings and they're ferrying them by helicopter!

Make the buggers work for a living, cram the lot into less than a fortnight, get the whole thing done and dusted and then get them back in the office.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 00:56 - 22 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
So at what point should the proper procedure be thrown out the window?

Do people not expect them to follow the proper procedures?

Should everyone who isn't Boris Johnston have thrown the towel in early and just given up?
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1198
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PostPosted: 07:11 - 22 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
So at what point should the proper procedure be thrown out the window?

Do people not expect them to follow the proper procedures?

Should everyone who isn't Boris Johnston have thrown the towel in early and just given up?
.

I’m not saying don’t follow proper procedures in the slightest. What I’m trying to suggest is that the procedure should be be streamlined - a lot!
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 09:38 - 22 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Boreish is obviously so confident he hasn't waited for the results before acting up
https://news.sky.com/story/police-in-late-night-call-to-boris-johnsons-home-11746622
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 10:00 - 22 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Boreish is obviously so confident he hasn't waited for the results before acting up
https://news.sky.com/story/police-in-late-night-call-to-boris-johnsons-home-11746622


That came out big early evening yesterday. Boreish or boorish? Both?

Anyway, there's a very obvious split of opinion on political lines. Most left/antiBrexit people are saying how bad it all is and that bj should not be leader (and more!), and most others are saying "Oh arr dirty tricks to stop bj".

Whatever, there's an actual recording, so this did happen. What the exact circumstances are is unknown. However, I don't think "dirty tricks" is appropriate; people of bj's character and vacillation as demonstrated in the past until the present simply should not be in the job.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 10:15 - 22 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
So at what point should the proper procedure be thrown out the window?

Do people not expect them to follow the proper procedures?

Should everyone who isn't Boris Johnston have thrown the towel in early and just given up?


Maybe at the point where we are facing potentially the greatest constitutional change in living memory, complicated by being against the clock?

You know, like now!

This is an extraordinary time in our history and it calls for extraordinary measures.

I'm not saying throw the procedure out of the window (although there could be a case for that) or that Boris' rivals should've given up as soon as it was clear how far in front he was, but it really doesn't need to take this long.

They managed to get the candidate list from double figures to two in less than a fortnight, it certainly shouldn't take a month for the final slug match.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 11:44 - 24 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:


Or cutting the bullsh1t, the remain papers have timed a made up propaganda story to try to force Hunt into the role.
Are people really that stupid to not see through the smear campaigns?


Unless his partner deliberately chose that time and date to have a row, isn't it more accurate to say that Johnson handed the media the story on a plate?

I don't agree with us getting all 'American' in political campaigns because we should be better than that, but unfortunately we exist in a world of 'trial by social media' now. The polls (for what they are worth...) have Hunt in the lead now as a result of the incident, and this demonstrates two things:

1. Johnson isn't savvy enough to keep his windows closed when having a barney.

2. Old school Tory Party members don't like a loose cannon.

Who knows, Johnson may still win. If he does I suspect it will be due to the lack of an effective alternative rather than any merit on his part.

According to the news today, Johnson has refused to take part in another television debate. Could it be he acknowledges that the 'cuddly fool' image he has taken years to perfect isn't going to see him through this time, and actually the role demands somebody with more gravitas?
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 11:53 - 24 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Diggs wrote:
the 'cuddly fool' image he has taken years to perfect

Everyone should read Jeremy Vine's "My Boris Johnson story" - highly enlightening. Should be compulsory reading for any Tory party member who's about to vote.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 12:09 - 24 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Freddyfruitbat wrote:
Diggs wrote:
the 'cuddly fool' image he has taken years to perfect

Everyone should read Jeremy Vine's "My Boris Johnson story" - highly enlightening. Should be compulsory reading for any Tory party member who's about to vote.


I read that. Jeremy Vine will no doubt be slagged off here for being a puppet of the liberal elite, but if true it does shed light on the enigma that is Boris Johnson, and why so many people see him as a refreshing change. Is somebody who wings it in speeches and doesn't understand what he is talking about really fit to lead us for the next 5 years?
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 12:15 - 24 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Diggs wrote:
Freddyfruitbat wrote:
Everyone should read Jeremy Vine's "My Boris Johnson story" - highly enlightening. Should be compulsory reading for any Tory party member who's about to vote.
Is somebody who wings it in speeches and doesn't understand what he is talking about really fit to lead us for the next 5 years?

If you believe Johnson's somebody who wings it in speeches, then I think you've rather missed the point of Vine's article!
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Last edited by Freddyfruitbat on 12:16 - 24 Jun 2019; edited 1 time in total
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:15 - 24 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think Hunt would be a better PM but as far as Brexit goes it seems to me he's relying on parliament blocking a no deal.

He says he wants out but then says he won't leave without a deal and he can negotiate a new one. Europe says no renegotiation so he needs parliament to block it or we drop out anyway.

What worries me most is we just get May's deal with maybe a slight tweak on the NI backstop.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:25 - 24 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
I hope he uses that speech when trying to sort Brexit stuff with the EU.

Last edited by Ste on 12:30 - 24 Jun 2019; edited 1 time in total
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 12:26 - 24 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Its catch 22. All we can hope for in reality is that the EU backs down in the knowledge that us coming out without some sort of mutually beneficial deal isn't in anybody's interests. It requires grown-ups on both sides to act quickly.

Hunt comes across as more grown-up than Johnson.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:52 - 24 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Diggs wrote:


I read that. Jeremy Vine will no doubt be slagged off here for being a puppet of the liberal elite, but if true it does shed light on the enigma that is Boris Johnson, and why so many people see him as a refreshing change. Is somebody who wings it in speeches and doesn't understand what he is talking about really fit to lead us for the next 5 years?


He is, a BBC clone who does what they tell him and gets paid shedloads for sh1t TV like Eggheads and the worst radio on programme on R2.

He is the archetypal establishment mouthpiece.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 12:59 - 24 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Freddyfruitbat wrote:

If you believe Johnson's somebody who wings it in speeches, then I think you've rather missed the point of Vine's article!



We read it differently. IMO Jeremy Vine was making the point that Johnson gets by because of his comedy value rather than any understanding of the subject he is supposed to be speaking about. The fact that he turned up on two occasions not knowing why he was supposed to be there or what he was supposed to be talking about, and relied upon a comedy routine instead supports this.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 13:09 - 24 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:


Do me a favour... You really think the timing is a coincidence, or are you just denying the obvious smear attempt because it fits your anti Tory, anti Brexit agenda?



You miss the point. It wasn't the Guardian's timing, it was Johnson's. I'm sure the neighbours sent it to the media with glee and probably received a few quid for their trouble too.

Personally I don't think this sort of reporting is fair or helpful, but such is the world we live in.
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