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 Posted: 11:24 - 15 Nov 2018  Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: | If Boris or Gove fancied the job, why didn't they go for it? Could it be because they realised that nobody can provide a deal that suits all parties, and that it is a poisoned chalice therefore? |
Possibly. I still think the placement of May was deliberate and her job from the start, as a staunch Remainer, was to sabotage the whole thing or stall it until the establishment could come up with a plan to wriggle out of it.
| Diggs wrote: | I suspect Boris is waiting for it to go tits-up, and when it does he will swoop in like a shining knight, perform a bumbling Churchill impression and lead the Tories to a narrow election victory based upon a no-deal manifesto. We will enter a prolonged period of recession, the Europeans and Asians will be blamed, the far Right will rise and he will be proclaimed a national hero for standing up for Britain.
Marvellous. |
I'm not sure Boris's image would be good enough now for him to be PM. Maybe a couple of years ago, but not after the media smear campaign. Rees-Mogg seems a far more sensible option for PM IMO.
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 11:26 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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I just wonder how many cups of coffee Reijufixing got through last night trying to read the whole draft 
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 11:35 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: | If Boris or Gove fancied the job, why didn't they go for it? Could it be because they realised that nobody can provide a deal that suits all parties, and that it is a poisoned chalice therefore?
I suspect Boris is waiting for it to go tits-up, and when it does he will swoop in like a shining knight, perform a bumbling Churchill impression and lead the Tories to a narrow election victory based upon a no-deal manifesto. We will enter a prolonged period of recession, the Europeans and Asians will be blamed, the far Right will rise and he will be proclaimed a national hero for standing up for Britain.
Marvellous. |
You need one of those "the end of the world is nigh!" sandwich boards
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Diggs
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| Posted: 11:50 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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There is an old bloke walks up and down our valley in sandals and one of those. Perhaps I should ask him for a turn...
My cynicism comes from a deep distrust of the motives of people in power who are also rich so the end result matters less to them than it does to the rest of us. Cameron's swift exit is an example of this.
They are like the creatures that appear on Big Brother in my view - out for a bit of cheap fame, a few quid and a tale to tell the kids. Nothing more.
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thx1138
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| Posted: 12:08 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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I do wonder if Gove and Johnson weren't playing a very long game, and colluded from the beginning in doing that? |
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Diggs
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| Posted: 12:15 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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MC I do remember, and I also remember that they backed out before a vote. Given that they are old mates, I think it more likely they spoke about it beforehand and agreed that it would do the cause no good to have one of them as PM in 2019.
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 12:20 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: |
My cynicism comes from a deep distrust of the motives of people in power who are also rich so the end result matters less to them than it does to the rest of us. Cameron's swift exit is an example of this. |
As are the businesses currently leaving, or threatening to leave the UK following Brexit.
You cannot separate the politicians from the businessmen. It is not the politicians who hold the real power.
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Diggs
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| Posted: 12:42 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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Sorry, the 'dream team' backed out...
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 12:57 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: | Sorry, the 'dream team' backed out... |
They don't matter. We vote for corporations, not political parties or individuals.
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 13:11 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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Diggs, don't go silent on me now! Have you no answer to my last points, vis:
| chickenstrip wrote: | As are the businesses currently leaving, or threatening to leave the UK following Brexit.
You cannot separate the politicians from the businessmen. It is not the politicians who hold the real power. |
In answer to your distrust of the rich and powerful comment, and, on politicians generally:
| chickenstrip wrote: | They don't matter. We vote for corporations, not political parties or individuals. |
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Diggs
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| Posted: 13:34 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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Sorry mate - a living to earn and all that...
I understand that argument. I am not sure however if the average voter (and I include us in this) knows which businesses back each Party, because we don't take the time to find out. It used to be simple - a vote for Labour was a vote for Union power, whereas a vote for Conservatives was a vote for big industry and all that entails. Socialism versus neo-classical economics.
It will always be the case that politicians act for those that pay the Party.
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| Posted: 13:41 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: |
It will always be the case that politicians act for those that pay the Party. |
You mean even fully within the EU, we have no say over anything?!
Ok, ok, calm down. It just means that this whole debate is nothing to do with us. Phew. That's ok then. Isn't it?
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Diggs
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| Posted: 13:51 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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I have the PM on in the background today. What is most telling isn't the fact that 95% of those asking questions seem against the deal, it is the fact that those MPs sat directly behind her aren't taking any notice of her answers, instead are texting or playing Candy Crush. This suggests to me that the whole matter is academic and lip-service is being payed to a matter that will not receive Parliament's backing.
This then suggests that no deal can be reached, and that we as an electorate have to be given a choice between no deal and no Brexit.
Assuming this happens, I wonder how we will vote this time around? I suspect many who didn't vote first time around will have come to hate the EU during the last 2.5 years and will vote for no deal. Likewise, many who voted for Brexit will vote against it now because they have a better understanding of what leaving involves. Whatever, it will be close!
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 14:06 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: | I have the PM on in the background today. What is most telling isn't the fact that 95% of those asking questions seem against the deal, it is the fact that those MPs sat directly behind her aren't taking any notice of her answers, instead are texting or playing Candy Crush. This suggests to me that the whole matter is academic and lip-service is being payed to a matter that will not receive Parliament's backing.
This then suggests that no deal can be reached, and that we as an electorate have to be given a choice between no deal and no Brexit.
Assuming this happens, I wonder how we will vote this time around? I suspect many who didn't vote first time around will have come to hate the EU during the last 2.5 years and will vote for no deal. Likewise, many who voted for Brexit will vote against it now because they have a better understanding of what leaving involves. Whatever, it will be close! |
What makes you, as someone who basically supports remain, think that those who didn't vote will now hate the EU? Surely you would come to the conclusion that they will hate Brexit?
I don't think the original Brexit voters will change - they are the ones who will be hating the EU more (trust me, I have inside knowledge on this one ).
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Diggs
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| Posted: 14:16 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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I'm just speculating, as a floating voter could go either way.
It comes down to the way the media presents the respective parties, and my gut feeling is that the EU has been presented in a poor light, particularly its negotiators. This must have an impact upon voting patterns. I base this on my own view of the EU, and the face I have been presented with hasn't been that of an organisation willing to work towards a solution that works equally for us and itself.
Like I say, it will be close...
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 14:20 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: | I'm just speculating, as a floating voter could go either way.
It comes down to the way the media presents the respective parties, and my gut feeling is that the EU has been presented in a poor light, particularly its negotiators. This must have an impact upon voting patterns. I base this on my own view of the EU, and the face I have been presented with hasn't been that of an organisation willing to work towards a solution that works equally for us and itself.
Like I say, it will be close... |
I don't think the EU has been presented by the media in a poor light. Seems to me most of the media have gone out of their way to make the EU look like the only answer. Unfortunately for them, the EU hasn't presented itself in an attractive way, and there's no hiding it..
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Diggs
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| Posted: 14:26 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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Still texting on the bench behind the PM...
There is a perception that the EU is presented as the answer, but I don't get that. What I see instead is soundbites of Barnier and Tusk being uncooperative...
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| Posted: 14:31 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: | What I see instead is soundbites of Barnier and Tusk being uncooperative... |
I think that's because they are. When have they ever shown otherwise? All the political discussion programs here still portray Brexit as disastrous.
Also, remember that the EU is not working for your benefit, remainer or otherwise. You can't blame them for that, you're a citizen of a country that has voted to leave them. You're just seeing them in their true colours.
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Last edited by chickenstrip on 14:35 - 15 Nov 2018; edited 1 time in total |
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Diggs
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| Posted: 14:33 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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Ever wondered why?
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Diggs
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| Posted: 14:34 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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Sorry. Cheap shot not applicable as previous text amended.
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Last edited by Diggs on 14:41 - 15 Nov 2018; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted: 14:36 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: | Sorry. Cheap shot. |
It's not a cheap shot at all. Just a wasted one 
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| Posted: 14:45 - 15 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: | Sorry. Cheap shot not applicable as previous text amended. |
And you have my apologies for that. I didn't realise I was in edit - thought I was still typing as a new post 
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