Forced to go cold turkey in prison

[Mister James]

I'm sorry Steve, but even I agree with a lot of what Siggi has said here. We'd probably quibble over the proportions of inmates who were arses/twats/misunderstood rebels, but it is a fact that much crime is caused by deprivation. That isn't an excuse for many offences - but it is a reason, and we should address the causes of crime as well as the incidents of it.

Prison is already unpleasant enough for most people. I spent 2 years working in a Crown and a Magistrates court, and I took a lot of people down to the cells for the first night of a long stretch. Plenty blustered about not giving a shit, but just about all of them had the same expression on their faces when they got on the vans, and it wasn't a smile. No-one wants to do porridge, (except for the odd wacko and occasional tramp/junkie/alky) because being away from your friends and family and having very little control over your life is a punishment in itself.

I'm all for punishment, I mete it out every day, but we shouldn't get into the habit of assuming that we are better than every little fella who ever spent some time inside.

One also has to be practical. Not only would super-harsh regimes result in super-riots every week, but Siggi is right in pointing out that it would result in hundreds and thousands of embittered nut-cases being released onto the streets with a genuine grudge against society.

I'd also be willing to bet that very few of those who agitate for Hell-like prisons would be willing to put their money where their mouth is and walk the landings themselves.
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>Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you...

[Steve_k]

The point is the criminal is not the victim everyone has the same chances in life you get out what you put in some people have it rough criminals and their victims. We have tried all sorts of schemes to give the criminals a chance and we still get multiple offenders its time to start looking after the victims of crime and give them a chance.

My wifes brother did 18 months for driving offences it was not his first time in court or prison he had enough chances first points then ban then more bans what did he do while out on tag drive so prison worked for him I asked him why he does it his answer if I get caught they will just give me a couple of years he is not worried about doing time.

If prison was made to be a deterent I may make a lot of people think before comiting the crime.

Our local paper had a case of a guy banned 18 times caught driving in a stolen car given a last chance, last chance to do what kill someone next time he steals a car.

If the first time in prison is like living hell they wont want to go back it will change the ways of a lot of criminals before its to late, until then the rest of us will suffer ever increasing crime is that what we want?

[Steve_k]

Have you got an answer to the current crime problem?

The system is not working something has to be done what would you do?

Reading some of your previous posts is it shoot them, beat them up, blow them up these are things you have said you would do to people?

[Steve_k]

68000 robberys in 1993
98000 robberys in 2005

200000 violence against persons in 1993
Over 1m in 2005


Sexual offences 31000 in 1993
62000 in 2005


This increase in crime

House burglary is now down to the same levels as 1981 due to alarms, people locking doors when in the house, less can in houses more people using cards and CCTV criminals are now hitting the easy targets like street robbery.

Siggy what is the answer to the crime problem you have stated my idea of harsher punishments is not the answer have you got a better idea?

[Steve_k]

So what are these criminals deprived of they get the same benefits as anyone else they get the same education as anyone else if they turn up They start life without a criminal record the same as everyone else their choice.

Why can a family of 6 children have 1 who is a criminal and 5 who work pay taxes pay their way get they all had the same chance.

This country is not perfect the system is not perfect the taxation is not perfect but its not an excuse to turn to crime.

[gixxersixx]

Social deprivation is a cause of some of the crime, deprive people of physiological needs and yes they are going to rob & steal to survive. There are however people out in society that commit crime for the enjoyment of it, majority of these are not socially deprived some just do it for greed.
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[G]

So, siggi; what solution do you suggest that will work for 'real' people in a real world?

Life isn't too bad for those that try as it is.
It seems to me that the problem comes from those that expect everything to be handed to them on a plate.

I've seen 'deprived' areas; I've also seen plenty of people that have grown up in such areas and 'made' good through a bit off effort.

Personally, I don't like the way a lot of tax money is spent; but the way I see it the government we have has evolved from people choosing it.

[Steve_k]

They dont need to rob or steal to survive they choose to rob or steal. They are already claiming their benefits the same as the rest of the unemployed unless they would rather steal someone elses money than claim theirs thay have support groups paid for by the people they steal from to help them if they can be bothered to go.

[Steve_k]

a) I am spoken to like a cunt.

b) I am treated like a cunt.

c) I am paid a pittance for working my nuts off, making some cunt rich.

d) I am robbed by the govt of most of my money. So the answer is nobody works in a job where they think they are been underpaid

So a job with any rules is out
So a job with any vocal instruction is out
So any job where they think they are been underpaid is out
So any sort of job where you have to pay tax is out

So who will do the jobs below your requirements?

How will the country run with no tax been paid?

Or is it just the select few who are are exempt from the system
Do these select few who dont want to pay in to the system still want all the benefits such as health care, social security, the police, fire serivce, roads, street lights etc or do they want to live in a cave.

Sorry they want all the benefits of society without putting in the rest of us fools can make up the shortfall after all the world owes it to them.

[Irezumi aka Reuben]

[Steve_k]

I am self employed I work around 60hrs a week I have cut my hours over recent years.
I earn enough to keep my family if I need more I work more.
I have worked from been 16 without been out of work longer than a couple of weeks.
I have done a full time job and pub work in the past just to keep up with the bills etc.
My wife works part time her choice she enjoys it.
I have had many jobs in the past and not been happy thats life.

This is what most people do I wont go out stealing if I want something I will just work harder why should I take from other people who work hard.

Am I a fool?

Does the world owe my a living?

[Steve_k]

But prison in its current form is not a deterent that why its full.

People working scraping a living have worse conditions than prisoners then when they start to bulid up a home someone robs them is that fair?

[Steve_k]

Its not to brutalize the criminals in prison what my idea is getting them doing something for society recycling rubbish the rest of the population is expected to do it The prisoners would have all the protective equipment required it wont be nice and they wont want to do it again so it might just make prison a deterent.

Locked up all day playing pool watching sky tv looking for ways to get compensation because they cant get their drugs is whats happening now.

[Steve_k]

But its not working is it.

Its time to look after the victims of crime and if that means the criminals get it hard tough.

We need a deterent whats to stop the local scallys stealing your bike is it the police and courts giving them a a holiday skiing or you giving them a good hiding which one is the deterent.

[gixxersixx]

Siggi serious question, if you made it bad in prison and I mean really bad, eg Lock prisoners up for 23.5 hours a day with just bread and water twice a day, no luxuries just their cell with a concrete block to lie on and a hole for a toilet with one person to a cell. Would this deter people from wanting to go back to prison. Would seriously like your view on this Siggi, and how would you punish people for their crimes
____________________
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[Steve_k]

Next time you see a photo in the paper of a 80 year old woman beaten black and blue think are the criminals going to be punished worse than her and she did nothing wrong except be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Steve_k]

Sorry Siggy I pay my tax dont do cash in hand its not that sort of work all cheques

Do you pay yours?

Or do you expect the rest of us to pay extra to make up the shortfall?

These criminals are stealing from the working class trying to make a living they are not robbing the local tax office or mp house its the normal people suffering but thats ok because they were deprived.

[Steve_k]

[gixxersixx]

So how would you deter people from going back without them using knives and guns to prevent themselves being nicked in the first place?
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We're all just born to die. So lets have some fun
gsxr6k1,pc,k&n,skimmed block,flowed head,yoshi gasket,cams,blue print,arrow system titanium can,quick shifter,gilles rear sets,ktech forks,ohlins shock,galfer waveys, -3front+4rear + other goodies

[Steve_k]

We have an equal tax system but you dont want to pay your bit the goverment will still get the same amount of money your not taking any from them its just the rest of us will pay more.

So a fair system where you pay less than the rest of us

[Steve_k]

So if anybody is doing better than you its ok to steal from them we should all be paid the same regardless of training experience or qualifications as long as you get a bit more than anyone else because you dont want to pay your taxes. If someone decides they dont want to work they are in their right to turn to crime because they have been deprived.

What a wonderful idea NOT

[Steve_k]

[Steve_k]

[gixxersixx]

[Steve_k]

Bring on the revolution