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| dan_flash |
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dan_flash
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Itchy
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 Posted: 18:39 - 13 Jun 2015  Post subject: |
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The funny thing is Britain has done forced repatriation before.
As the OP stated the Vietnamese boat people.
They let a Dutch container ship dock with 4000 migrants in it.
The British Colonial government let them stay and let them work, which was rather nice of them. Hong Kong was considered to be the promised land. 70000 more arrived in the next year. This increased to 100,000 (consider the HK population then was 4 million) for a short time.
By the mid 80s the colonial government simply interned them and prevented them from working and even stepping on land. A huge death prison camp was built in Tun Mun. They were no longer given the right to work and were not given anything.
This resulted in Anchor babies, where they'd get pregnant and jump ashore just before giving birth. This policy remains today anybody born on HK soil with certain genetic markers is considered a Chinese citizen.
As a result you'd see boats giving rides to people for money Clive James had a show about this where he took a ride with a Vietnamese woman who nearly killed him in the harbour.
By the mid 80s the Colonial government were tired of them and simply made them go away at gun point. Forcing many to return to Vietnam and sending them elsewhere.
Today there are a small community of Vietnamese people in Hong Kong.
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Rogerborg
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Itchy
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dan_flash
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 10:45 - 14 Jun 2015 Post subject: |
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| dan_flash wrote: | other EU or EEA members have space and could use some cheap labour |
Sure, but...
| dan_flash wrote: | And yup - nigh all of them were seemingly families. I'm talking the full monty - women, children, men, even a woman who was pregnant. |
... that means costs. Medical, education, more housing, more utilities.
Europe does have a demographic problem and needs breeders. I'm just not sure whether it'll absorb them or be engulfed by them.
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| Vincent |
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Vincent
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| Posted: 11:09 - 14 Jun 2015 Post subject: |
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Two, good ol' British phrases come to mind reading this thread.
"Don't tar everyone with the same brush"
and
"Try putting yourself in their shoes".
On an optimistic note, it seems Shia Militias are gradually begining to learn how to work with the Sunni Tribes....and visa versa... in Iraq. Let's hope we see ISIS deaths reported in the hundreds soon, rather than the odd handfull....... as well as the retaking of Fallujah and Ramadi. It also seems the Americans are begining to realise that interfering with other Nations problems only brings more grief, death and suffering.
The situation in Libya and Yemen are a different matter with no end to the bloodshed in sight 
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Last edited by Vincent on 11:29 - 14 Jun 2015; edited 1 time in total |
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Kickstart
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dan_flash
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| Posted: 13:00 - 14 Jun 2015 Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | ... that means costs. Medical, education, more housing, more utilities. |
Correct. And these costs could, in theory, be easily taken care of by some sort of EU institution based in some North West non-Town, like Maastricht or somewhere, who cares.
But in practice that won't happen and the discussion will just go all political because no Politiker wants to lose their ever-so-important Nationalistic supporters and the right-of-centre voters also don't like it when their Man In Office goes all soft and Commy and starts whining on about solutions to the problem of the North African Boat People and ethics and blah blah blah...
Point being: politics plays the key role here, not economics and sociology.
| Kickstart wrote: | A pretty short term solution, making things far worse in the long term. When in a hole stop digging. |
Correct. But in this case, the hole will keep getting deeper anyway. So you may as well at least determine what shape the hole will be.
And by that I mean; set up a resettlement programme for the Asylum Seekers which spreads the burden over all EEA States, resettle the Asylum Seekers where they will be of most value and function to society, and eradicate choice for them (don't just resettle them in the country where they made their application, instead consider the above criteria and pick a suitable EEA member state thereafter).
And having just read my reply again, I think I'm being rather naive and idealistic now 
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| Vincent |
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Vincent
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Kickstart
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| Polarbear |
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Polarbear
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| Posted: 13:08 - 14 Jun 2015 Post subject: |
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| dan_flash wrote: | | Rogerborg wrote: | ... that means costs. Medical, education, more housing, more utilities. |
Correct. And these costs could, in theory, be easily taken care of by some sort of EU institution based in some North West non-Town, like Maastricht or somewhere, who cares.
But in practice that won't happen and the discussion will just go all political because no Politiker wants to lose their ever-so-important Nationalistic supporters and the right-of-centre voters also don't like it when their Man In Office goes all soft and Commy and starts whining on about solutions to the problem of the North African Boat People and ethics and blah blah blah...
Point being: politics plays the key role here, not economics and sociology.
| Kickstart wrote: | A pretty short term solution, making things far worse in the long term. When in a hole stop digging. |
Correct. But in this case, the hole will keep getting deeper anyway. So you may as well at least determine what shape the hole will be.
And by that I mean; set up a resettlement programme for the Asylum Seekers which spreads the burden over all EEA States, resettle the Asylum Seekers where they will be of most value and function to society, and eradicate choice for them (don't just resettle them in the country where they made their application, instead consider the above criteria and pick a suitable EEA member state thereafter).
And having just read my reply again, I think I'm being rather naive and idealistic now |
I think you are as well. 
The only way to sort it is to make their country a better place to live but look what happens when 'we' go into other countries to sort it out.
There is no nice kitten cuddling answer and once it stops being news we can send he warships back to port and let them carry on drowning as sea.
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Itchy
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Vincent
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| Posted: 22:21 - 14 Jun 2015 Post subject: |
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Going by the ones climbing out of trucks at Stop 24 services (J11 M20), and blatantly walking up the M20 from Dover, anyone who believes current migration figures is a fool.
Everyone in Calais case camp will expect to be in the UK within 6 months. There are around 4000 bullying lorry drivers every day in Calais. When the French police find these illegal immigrants, they ignore the fact that they're in France illegally and move them to the back of the queue to try to smuggle into the UK again.
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| Vincent |
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Vincent
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| Posted: 22:50 - 14 Jun 2015 Post subject: |
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Rogerborg
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Posted: 23:23 - 14 Jun 2015  Post subject: |
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Doesn't look like fleeing refugee families to me.
Surely some mistake. There was this train, see...
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| Posted: 13:53 - 15 Jun 2015 Post subject: |
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| Vincent wrote: | I'm still not sure who you mean by "they". There are so many different people fleeing so many countries...for so many different reasons..........
I presume you mean all the horrible ones amongst them....the ones we're really scared off  The ones that will scrounge benefits, open shops, use our wonderfull NHS services for free, drink in our pubs, shag our daughters, mug our old people......... 
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I'm talking about the ones who have already passed through several safe countries without claiming asylum. The thousands who are now camped out across the channel, trying to illegally enter the UK on a daily basis.
I'd love to know why you think the illegal immigrants in Calais are all nice, law abiding, model citizens, who will only benefit the country.
Personally, I'd prefer it if we could chose which people to let.
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dan_flash
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| Posted: 18:41 - 16 Jun 2015 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 wrote: | I'd love to know why you think the illegal immigrants in Calais are all nice, law abiding, model citizens, who will only benefit the country.
Personally, I'd prefer it if we could chose which people to let. |
Well according to this, which in this case is Asutria-centric but still uses EU law as its' frame of reference, countries actually can, believe it or not, choose who they let in and who they don't (above link is mega lefty NGO fodder by the way, designed to help the boat people on humanitarian grounds or something maybe).
And given the above, it's a wonder why Britain doesn't just enforce its' borders better using Dublin II as a means to sending the boat people back south. It is perfectly feasible, apparently, according to the above.
Becuase I was on a train back from Ita
| Rogerborg wrote: | Surely some mistake. There was this train, see... |
Oh nevermind.
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| Posted: 22:14 - 16 Jun 2015 Post subject: |
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| dan_flash wrote: |
Well according to this, which in this case is Asutria-centric but still uses EU law as its' frame of reference, countries actually can, believe it or not, choose who they let in and who they don't (above link is mega lefty NGO fodder by the way, designed to help the boat people on humanitarian grounds or something maybe).
And given the above, it's a wonder why Britain doesn't just enforce its' borders better using Dublin II as a means to sending the boat people back south. It is perfectly feasible, apparently, according to the above.
Becuase I was on a train back from Ita
| Rogerborg wrote: | Surely some mistake. There was this train, see... |
Oh nevermind. |
You're making the same mistake the left wing press and BBC are. These are not migrants, they are illegal immigrants, who the French pretend aren't in France illegally.
They will enter the UK illegally and undetected. We have no say on control of this and more than people think are getting into the UK each week. I see plenty on my journey to Dover several times a week. (On a stretch of motorway which the police conveniently don't patrol. 
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Vincent
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 8 years, 354 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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