Getting the blame...

[TiN]

Hello all,

Just a bit a of a rant and also a request for some advice, if you would be so kind.

As some of you may know, I was involved in an accident last month on my CBR. I just called the legal people who are handling my claim, and they said that the third party are placing blame on me, which is surprising considering the circumstances and also the attitude of the person who hit me.

Anyway, I've made the following little diagram:

https://www.tin3d.com/downloads/accident.jpg

Here's my "side of the story". I was (happliy) following a Land Rover for a bit until I got to a section of road where there were parked cars on the left hand side. Normal cars don't take too much notice because there are still two useable sides of carriageway (of a single carriageway), but the Land Rover decided that he didn't want to risk it. Fair enough.
In the distance, there is a car approaching, but it stops and waits to turn right into the junction (as per the picture), so I decide to overtake the Land Rover (my movement wasn't quite as drastic/sudden as in the picture).

I carry on my merry way. As I go past the junction, I see the car waiting to pull out, but don't think much about it. The next thing I know, I see (from the corner of my eye) the car pulling out, and the rest is history.

Could I please have peoples' (unbiased) opinions on this?

I've got some additional details regarding the third partys' startment about my involvement, but I don't think that it will be appropriate to post them.

Cheers,
____________________
TiN
dotgems.net

[Demonic69]

Totally their fault mate. It's illegal to pull out on anyone, full stop. Regardless of any circumstances. You're allowed to overtake ( unless it was solids) and yada yada.
So no mate, screw them for everything they're worth
____________________
Back on a Blade. Just feels so right.

[Ste]

Why are they saying it is your fault? What was it in thier view you did wrong?

From what you say I would say the person who pulled out into you was at blame.

Were you speeding?
Did they ask the Land Rover if there was any reason other than excess caution for them not going?

[Crazy Manx Man]

What a bitch, I was in the exact situation a month ago but with my car, we just ended up paying out of our pocket...but that's another story.

Are the witnesses of the accident getting involved? and are vouching for you? That should help tremendously.

Best of luck.

[Major_Grooves]

Looks like their fault 100%. Is the car that was waiting to turn right vouching for you?
____________________
About me|@Major_Grooves|My company|Digg|Flickr

[TiN]

[John]

Looks like their fault completely to me.
____________________
TT600 neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeowwww!

[mr.z]

Its basicly down to the scumbag solicitors, they will tell the third party that they might be able to get a claim even if they have admitted liability already, i know people who have been on both ends of this it makes me so angry the morons who are payed to push pens and lie for a living get away with it so frequently

[mr jamez]

Are they trying to screw you for injury claims as well?

I don't really see how it is your fault, doubt the blame will be put on you though seeing as you have a witness

[Kickstart]

Hi Tin

I would think it is the cars fault. However they might be able to shift some blame onto the car waiting (if it had waved them out).

With 7 parked cars (allowing 4 yards each) it would take 2 seconds for you to travel past them at 30mph. Plenty of time for the driver to see you.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[MitoIslander]

With the driver waiting, if he waved the other driver out, then its not him to blame, it would still be the car pulling out, the highway code does say not to take notice of a car (or driver) waving you out.

i'd put 100% blame on the car pulling out!

Jay

[hugo-a-gogo]

the courts often have the attitude "you must have been going too fast or the car driver would have seen you"
____________________
"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them - but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one. That is why they are dangerous."
Hunter S Thompson
clicky 4 bikey

[JimboJ]

What have the police said in all this? their view is crucial?

The third party in my case tried to lay 100% blame on me saying I went throught he lights on red, 6 witnesses begged to differ

When the Police report came through 100% their fault they paid up. In your case i can't see how it was your fault, even if you were speeding. The other driver should of seen you and should get done for driving without due care and attention. My dad had a similar thing in his car and the blame was put on the person pulling out even though my dad was going a little fast.

I really do hope that you resolve this and it's all sorted mate! Not so much for the biker winning so that lovely bike isn't gone for nothing

James
____________________
[00:42] <NSR-Andy> which one's the missionary position
[00:42] <NSR-Andy> i've heard it's good
[9:42pm] <Shaun> you came first mike | <Shaun> yes gav, because I really want to fuck you

[Harman]

Hi Tin i had an accident last year very similar to yours. But he was not insured. I contacted the police to see what they were doing to find out that as i was not put in hospital that it was to expesive to prosecute.Also as i had compehesive insurance my policy paid out so i lost my no claims. I hope you have better luck S.H

[Ian (GPX)]

TiN,

I'd be going back the insurance company and saying that I do not admit liability in the strongest possible terms.

They are their to act on your behalf as they have been paid to do so, your instructions and non admintance in this case should be put forward, you are within your rights to say to your insurance company to pursue court proceedings against the driver that pulled out on you as you had right of way. The road in which the 3rd party pulled out from would have had Give way markings in the road, it's clear they did not give way or look before moving out.

[True Blue]

I wouldn't worry about it Tin. The guy blaming you doesn't mean anything. Everybody blames someone else when accidents happen. It's what they tell you to do. I don't see how the insurers can blame anyone but him
____________________
Past >>>> Honda NSR 125 >>>> Suzuki GSXR 600 K1 >>>> Suzuki GSXR 600 K4 >>>>Kawasaki Z1000 DAF >>>>Suzuki RMZ 250 >>>> Current >>>> KTM Superduke R 1290 >>>>

[DaveS]

As has been said already, not your fault.

The vehicle on the road has right of way over the person waiting to pull out onto it.

..Dave

[Stew]

Didn't the driver of the car (fiesta?) drive into the side of you?
Surely this must place the blame on them. Firstly they were pulling into a road and must give way to traffic already on that road in both directions. Secondly the fact that they hit the side of your bike/you must shift blame from you, as you cannot do anything to avoid incident from such a position.

Can't believe they are even trying to move the blame onto you.
Did the car indicating right stay to give a witness statement
____________________
"Unlike public school you don't need to have your arse up and your head down to go a long way...."

[T.C]

As I have said often before, because the Police are not prosecuting anyone and the fact that they may have laid the blame fairly and squarely on the part of the third party, it won't stop the defendants insurers from looking for a degree of contributory negligence in order to mitigate some of their losses. Why? simply because there is a difference between road traffic law and civil law (which claims come under) and all they have to show (if they can) is that on the balance of probability a certain action was carried out and they are half way to mitigating some of those losses.

Now by trying to counter claim, they are trying to frighten you in submission and this is a common practice, however, providing the evidence is good there is nothing to worry about and if it went to court, I have no doubt that a judge would find in your favour 100%.

What you have to be careful of is if any evidence comes up in respect of the overtake that was carried out before the collision. If a witness states that he saw you overtake at a speed he considered to be, shall we say "Briskly" this may be interpreted as excessive and will in turn work against you as contributory negligence, and any evidence of excess speed will be considered contrib unless you can prove absolutely that there was no question of excess speed.

To give you an example, I have just concluded an investigation in respect of a collision very similar to yours, but I cannot prove 100% that there was no excess speed and we have witnesses who say that the bike was speeding. On this basis we have had to settle for 75/25 in our favour which is better than 100/0 against that his previous solicitors were suggesting, and his claim is worth £1.4 million approx.

Get back onto your law firm and tell them that you are not prepared to accept any liability (depending on the evidence which you should have seen by now under the rules of disclosure), and if needs be issue proceedings against the other side. If they (the other side) are just trying it on, then they may make what is called a part 36 offer which is an out of court settlement, but you have the right to reject that offer. If they still persist then tell them that you will see them in court and go for it. This often frightens them as the other side will end up picking up the bill (usually around £30,000) just for stepping inside the court room so they will want to settle to avoid these costs.

If your solicitors are not prepared to play ball, then change your solicitors which you are entitled to do and get someone on board who will look after your interests.

For what it is worth, if this was an accident I was investigating I would be (based on what you have said) recommending that primary liability be found against the third party (the other side) with no contrib on your part, but as I say it does depend on the evidence available, but don't read too much into the Police report, it only acts as an indication unless there is a prosecution and conviction for a serious traffic offence such as death by dangerous, dangerous or careless driving or similar.
____________________
It is better to arrive 30 seconds late in this world, than 30 years early in the next

[TiN]

Thanks for the replies.

Keith - Sorry, but the number of cars was more than 7 (I think)...I just couldn't be bothered to draw them all.

T.C - Once again, some useful info there mate. The solicitors did mentioned something about a police report that the third party had, and that the third party insurers would be willing to share the report for £30. What's this about? "My" solicitors then said "we'll only pay it if we feel that it's worth pursuing".

I think that the police took 2 witness reports - one from the car waiting to turn, and the other from the Land Rover. I doubt that either reports would have been in too much favour of me.

I'll get back onto the solictors tomorrow (I didn't actually get to speak to the person who is in charge of my case, only one of her colleagues).

Cheers,
____________________
TiN
dotgems.net

[GFK]

In my opinion - if you weren't speeding then the car is to blame.

However....

If the guy pulling out of the junction didn't see you, then... he didn't see you - a genuine accident.

What nobody seems to have mentioned is that several cars were parked right next to a junction (judged solely on your diagram) - were they illegally parked? Were they obscuring his view? If so then they contributed heavily towards the circumstances of the accident.

At the end of the day, its not like he deliberately knocked you off your bike, is it? Accidents happen. Be thankful you're not dead.

[edit]

One more thing - golden rule of motoring accidents; never EVER admit responsibility even if its blatently your fault. Once you've done that, in the eyes of the law it IS your fault - even if it wasn't!

I used to work in insurance unfortunately.

[Ste]

[T.C]

[TiN]

[TiN]

T.C - I think that it's part of my insurance "free legal service" thing. Once I told my broker of the accident, they immediately passed me onto them (CRS - Claims Recovery Service).
____________________
TiN
dotgems.net