Light bike, low seat for "A" test.

[Tony Norton]

Hi all,

having recently passed my A2 test, and now riding my Rebel500, I have a hankering for a full "A" licence.

Can anyone recommend a bike that approximates to the following: -

1) 600cc to 650cc, preferably parallel twin, I've ridden an SV650 and didn't take to the fact that if one turns the throttle a gnats cock you get kicked up the backside.

2) Weight, not much above 200Kg. The Rebel weighs in at 198Kg and I can manage that.

3) Seat height nearer 700mm than 800mm. At the age of 86 and with shortish legs, I have difficulty getting my leg over. (I know, you've heard that one before.)

Also, I would like to find a training school, preferably within 30 miles or so of Bournemouth, that has in their fleet a bike that falls within the above spec.

Any thoughts?

You may note that I said, back along, that A2 was far enough, so why the desire for an "A"? I would probably stick with my Rebel but I need a challenge in my life.

TIA for any suggestions.

Tony Norton
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Newbie in 2021 at 83. Now the proud holder of an A2 licence. That's far enough, or was, until I became ambitious.

[stinkwheel]

Old model Ducati Monster 600? Don't be put off by the seat height of 770mm, because it's an inline V-twin, you can stand close and your legs are nearly straight when you're astride it. A lass in my club rides one with a cutdown seat and she's 4' 10".
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Tony Norton]

Thanks for that stinkwheel,

I only wonder if there are any schools that have that model.

Cheers
Tony
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Newbie in 2021 at 83. Now the proud holder of an A2 licence. That's far enough, or was, until I became ambitious.

[A100man]

Easy-X had a Yam XSR after his rebel - not sure how light it is though but I've heard he's weedy
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Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600

[Easy-X]

[Ayrton]

Never really found the throttle on my SV650 to be that bad, are you sure it's just because your not used to riding a 650? My training school had a Suzuki Gladius that they used for shorter people (and my brother after he dropped they're new CB650 ), I think it's got the same engine as the SV.

[struan80]

Older Street Triple 675 has a relativly low seat height. The bike is nice and light also. I am 5ft 7" and can almost flat foot it.

[stinkwheel]

Have a sit on a Triumph speed twin, they are fairly diminuative. Actually quite heavy but you don't notice this unless you're in the habit of pushing them about the place, good mass centralisation.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[to v or not to v]

Moto Guzzi V7 has a low seat height and is easy and fun to ride. comes in 750 and 850 cc versions.

also Royal Enfield Shotgun/Meteor 650s have a fairly low seat, although i think they are around 240 kg.
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current bike Yamaha Thunderace.
its old and fat, but its a damned good ride. the bikes not bad either.

[stinkwheel]

I totally forgot to mention the ubiquitous CB400/super four/CB1. Again some are getting long in the tooth now but they are still out there and are built like tonka toys. There were loads of grey import ones about the place for a while. I'd see this as a plus point because the build quality on them is superb.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[ThunderGuts]

These aren't going to fit the bill as an "A" bike for taking a test on though are they? I assume that's what the OP is saying anyway, unless the licence rules have changed again?

As a few posts above have said, weight is only as significant as where the centre of mass is and seat width/bike shape can have a greater impact flat-footability than outright seat height. All that said however, I'd imagine the Rebel has a low centre of mass, it's sub 200kg so it's pretty light and it *does* have a low seat height. I think fundamentally finding a bike suitable for taking the A test on that essentially ticks all those same attributes but is bigger capacity might be tricky (but not impossible).

What about a Street Twin? Low seat, circa 220kg I think but low down weight. Slipper clutch and a well behaved engine. Newer ones are 64bhp I think and 900cc so would tick the boxes I assume for A test.
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TG.

[Fat Angry Scotsman]

[A100man]

[ThunderGuts]

[Tony Norton]

Hi,

Firstly, many thanks to all who have contributed to my search for a suitable "A" category bike. I think I may posibly have found an answer. Instead of adding yet another bike to the stable, why not have one bike that does the lot?

Prompted by those suggestions that mentioned Triumph, the one I now have in mind is the Triumph Street Triple 675. (Listed by '.gov.uk' as an "A" bike and an "A2" when restricted.) Yes I know that it has nominally an 800mm seat height, but it can be lowered. It also weighs 10Kg less than the Rebel.

I therefore have a couple of questions for you bikers with the knowhow: -

1) According to a review by Kev Raymond of MCN, (updated on 22 March 2024) "You don’t need to change the dog bones, it’s easy to lower the bike enough for most people. With the wheels on the floor, loosen all the bolts in the rear suspension linkages. There’ll be a ‘clunk’ as all the joints settle." Can anybody give me details of the foregoing e.g. which bolts and where are they?
I would also soften the rear springs to the limit, (something I have done to my Rebel), and do, or have done, the 'dog bone' mod. I reckon these together would bring the seat down to my level. I know the experts would say that this would ruin the handling, but as I don't expect to be cornering on my side walls with one knee and one elbow on the deck, I can't see that bothering me much. According to specialist Clive Wood "Moving the forks up through the yokes by about 15mm" would restore the balance. Looking at the side view of the bike I reckon, as an engineer, that with some fabricated parts the actual seat support could be lowered. As I wouldn't be offroading I don't think that massive amount of clearance between the rear wheel and the seat support would be necessary.

Now my next question: -

2) How is the restriction of the bike to "A2" classification done? I am hoping that I could use the bike in "A2" format regularly, then, when wanting to do a Mod 1 or Mod 2 test, change it to unrestricted on site in preparation for the test.

Has anyone had any experience of the restriction of the Street 675?

If I can sort the above, then I reckon that not only could my desire for the full licence could be achieved, but I would also have an "A" bike for my own use.

TIA for any help offered,

Cheers
Tony N
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Newbie in 2021 at 83. Now the proud holder of an A2 licence. That's far enough, or was, until I became ambitious.

[ThunderGuts]

A 675 Striple (unrestricted) should meet the requirements for an "A" test bike (at least 67bhp, 595cc and 175kg) so you're good for that. I imagine the restrictor on a modern bike is ECU based (others will correct/confirm) in which case probably a dealer job. I imagine while you're holding an A2 licence, the insurance company would want cast iron certainty you're in "A2" restricted mode. Now how this is managed for your test I don't know, but that's an insurance issue (i.e. how to get an unrestricted bike to the test centre and be insured on it for the test).

The biggest issue I can foresee is you've previously expressed concern for how "pokey" something like an SV650 is, an unrestricted Striple is about 50% more powerful than an SV and well over twice as powerful as your Rebel. Restricted to A2, the Striple will be similar, but it all depends how the restriction works. If it is a top end thing, i.e. the bike still develops similar torque and power lower down the rev range, it will feel pretty powerful even when restricted. If it is more of a linear adjustment across the whole rev range, it'll be far more friendly lower down when restricted, but take the restriction off for your test and it'll feel like a different bike.

I would also imagine the posture is quite a bit different to your Rebel; tucked up legs - is that going to be comfortable for you?
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TG.

[Tony Norton]

Hi Thunderguts,

powerwise I'm guessing that shouldn't be a problem. My limited experience tells me that parallel twins are less twitchy than "V" twins, and would guess that a parallel triple is much the same. I've had a fair bit of time on urban roads, in urban traffic, on the Rebel, and have learned how to control the power output with the clutch in combination with the throttle. Of course I could be wrong, and in for a nasty surprise.

Looking at photos of the 'Striple', the pegs don't seem any further back than the Z300 that I used to get through A2 Mod 1, and that wasn't too uncomfortable. Owners' reviews tell me that it (the striple) is not good for long motorway runs. I recently went out for a "fun and learning" ride, in company with my latest instructor. That lasted just over 2 hours, which is about my limit I think. I had a bit of a numb bum at the end of it.

Thanks for your input mate.

Tony N
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Newbie in 2021 at 83. Now the proud holder of an A2 licence. That's far enough, or was, until I became ambitious.

[Nobby the Bastard]

[ThunderGuts]

Tony - I would suggest you get yourself down to a large used bike dealer armed with the criteria for an A test compatible bike, talk to the owner about what you’re trying to achieve and sit on some bikes that could tick the boxes. I wouldn’t write off weight purely on a number, likewise seat height can massively be influenced by bike shape. Peg position, bar position etc can all make a significant difference to how you get on with it.

I remain a bit unconvinced a Striple would be a wise move given what you’ve said previously.
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TG.

[Tony Norton]

I take your point Nobby.

How do they get 128% more power, and 56% more torque with just a 35% increase in engine size?

I'm going to have to have a very careful little ride, in unrestricted format, to see how I find it. If it scares the life out of me i guess I'll just have to forget the whole idea.
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Newbie in 2021 at 83. Now the proud holder of an A2 licence. That's far enough, or was, until I became ambitious.

[ThunderGuts]

Unlike typically with cars (at least until fairly recently anyway when they started bolting turbos on everything), there is a much looser correlation between power and capacity in a bike engine (at least once you get shove 125cc anyway). Example; CBR600RR produces circa 120bhp from 599cc, whereas a 900cc Harley might produce little over 40bhp. Different cylinder number, stroke, bore, layout (eg single, parallel, V2, I3, V4, I4, flat twin etc) all have major impacts on the characteristics of the engine. Parallel twins are generally fairly docile and utilitarian units, built for easy and efficient riding. Inline 3 engines (such as in the Striple, other Triumphs, some Yams) are generally intended to provide higher performance. The Striple isn’t aimed at commuters or gentle riding, its intended audience are people who like to carve up twisty roads, taking advantage of a flexible and powerful engine with a light and flickable bike. It’s designed to be responsive, so if you twist the right grip at lower speeds in probably most gears it’ll respond accordingly. That’s what it’s designed to do.
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TG.

[Nobby the Bastard]

Higher state of tuning.

Harley's have huge engines but are very forgiving simply becuase of thir very low state of tuning.

A RGV 250 would scare your pants off despite still being a V twin and only 250cc because they are very highly strung 2Ts

The type of engine (V, parallel, boxer, twin, triple, four) have far less to do with how much poo comes out when you give it the berries than the state of tuning.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Triumph Sprint ST 1050

[Nobby the Bastard]

Wasn't it a Striple that Paddy took everywhere on the back wheel?
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Triumph Sprint ST 1050

[A100man]

[Nobby the Bastard]

I think I know how to describe this for Tony.

Your Rebel is optimised for mid range, and at 7k revs its past the max torque point (6k) and is starting to run out of puff until it gets to 8.5 when engine sspeed stops increasing. It probably doesn't even have an engine speed limiter because the inherent design means it cannot actually spin any faster.

A Striple, conversely, is optimised for top end and due to the larger capacity etc. doesn't need to have the optimised mid range. At 7k it will engage the warp engines and much hilarity then ensues until it hits the rev limiter at 11k to protect engine longetivity and reliability. At that point you grab 2nd gear, the engine speed is just over 7k so the warp engines are still engaged and so you rince and repeat until you either run out of gears, road, or testicles.

If you aren't going to use that bit of the engine you are massively wasting your money buying that bike.

My bike's engine is the bigger brother of the striple engine so has the same power characteristics, it just has lots more of it.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Triumph Sprint ST 1050