3 years on in Iraq: big mistake or the greater good?

[byke95]

So, I'm not wanting to open a can of worms or bore people but I do think it is important to keep this issue on people's minds.

This isn's a debate really, they tend to result in overly long posts that become impossible to read. In an attempt to keep it simple I've added a (possibly overly simple) poll. Of course there are grey areas but where do you stand?

The numbers so far:
3000 American soliders dead

6000 Iraqi soldiers dead

37 000 Iraqi civilians dead

Number of British soldiers dead? ITV surprisingly didn't report this number last night...

[JonB]

3 years on the instability is worse than when they went in. Big Mistake. Oil prices went up also.
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[akaDAVE]

I can't believe it's a full three years that I was watching the first wave of attacks live on Sky News.
I got the impression that it was going to be a short blitz follwed by a period of recovery and policing. It still looks like all out war to me.
It's turned into background noise in the news with countless bombings and deaths going unnoticed.
I have no real grip on the political complexities of it all but I can't see a satisfactory ending very soon.
Hopefully they won't be tempted to pull out troops just to remove the media interest along with them.
Whatever happened to Afganistan? Don't hear anything about that now.
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[veeeffarr]

It's not like we had a choice in what we should do in the first place.

The UK should never have gotten involve.

Democracy my fucking arse, more like DemolitionCrazy.

[8316]

when i first woke up to see that they had caught saddam hussein i wondered, "is it all finished now?"
i did wonder however, how long it would take to stabilize the country...
don't think it will end-we are there to stay for a long time......
sad really
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[SoND]

It's great watching politicians trying to explain why they went to war.

First it starts as terrorists, then saddam has nukes and now because he was just a bad person because he used torture.

What gets me is that america has been known for torturing terrorist suspects and still haven't answered properly about the suspicious CIA flights.

The bush administration is just as bad as saddam. Saddam at least had kept the Sunnis and the shiites away from each other because this would happen.

I hate Bush and that brown nosing shit bag Blair.
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[Mister James]

A justified war, superbly executed.

A muddled follow-up, poorly executed.
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>Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you...

[akaDAVE]

[biggerjohn]

First I will ask you to ask yourself has your opinion on the war changed in any way in the 3 years since it started.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing right or wrong basing your views on any one fixed point in time is an easy thing to do. But think about the big picture I honestly do believe that in 5 10 20 years from now the war will be seen as a necessary evil.

Maybe not for what it did for Iraq but for the world political situation.

Do you honestly think any one in North Korea would even be listening to the UN USA Russia and China and the UK atm and be brokering a deal stopping nuclear proliferation if the coalition hadn’t back up a decade of impotent UN declaration and sanctions against Iraq with a good hard kicking.

Right or wrong the carrot now has a stick to back it up.

Even now while Iran is on it high horse over its nuclear program and is attempting to be as belligerent as possible even they will listen once the stance the UN taking goes from “talk to us” to “talk to us or you will be sorry” not for fear of the UN as they have proven to be about as much use as a chocolate fire guard but for real honest fear the nations that care will act just as they did in Iraq.

I honestly think Iraq is better of without Sadam I think it would be better of again if the “insurgent” large majority of them from other countries with there own agenda’s nothing to do with Iraq would also just fuck off and let Iraq sort out governing itself in a way that benefits all its peoples and not just one small set or another as in the past.

But sadly Iraq is ripe for these people to sow misery and hatred witch that will use to forward there own goals at the expenses of the peoples of Iraq.

If any think the war has also shown the world there are people that can talk up a grate new world but will stand by idly and do nothing if it hurts there own selfish interest (France and most of the rest of the UN members) and other that will stand and act on the ideas and ideals they signed up for when joining the UN in the face of nepotism and self interest.


War is not now nor ever will be a pleasant thing with all side “playing” by the rules it is by its nature an evil thing but it some times the only way to fight one evil is with another evil. Something I very am grateful for every 8th of May and take time to remember all that fought and died for my freedoms.


P.S. sorry if it’s a little rambling but I am at work and board.

[WR450_geezer]

[Whosthedaddy]

Iaq is the new N Ireland
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[Mister James]

[Mister James]

[killa]

There are incidents that I have heard and seen in Iraq that I didn’t agree with, but I don’t kid myself into thinking I know enough to say whether it is right or wrong. The first part of the war was great, as Ricky Gervais said, much better coverage than the Gulf war, not all the filming was at night time. lol
Which, I think highlights the point that due to media and reporting being right in the thick of it now and more filming going on, we see a lot more going on which can be a bad thing IMO.
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[Spiral]

The situation in iraq just shows us how weak america and britain is when it comes to being strong, or at the very least run by governments that have the strength and conviction to deal with situations rather than fuck about the way we are doing now.

Blair and bush went into to secure the oil not to free the oppressed people of iraq in fact they could'nt give a fuck about the people.

But being the 2 idiots that they are, they have got us into a war that as a country which is run by weak politicians (who pretty much do a good job of showing how thick the majority is because they voted for these idiots) we have no hope of winning because the west does not have the will to win a war in the middle east.

Wars between countrys are not won simply because you have defeated the military of a nation you must win the hearts and minds and if you can not do that then there is only one option left, im not about to state what it is but it ain't gonna get anybody the noble peace prize any time soon.

IMO If a country is not prepared to do what must be done to win then do not invade other countrys your only going to sacrafice innocent lives and lose in the end, which is exactly what we are doing now losing!
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[RickHolt]

I have mixed view on the whole 'war'. The main bit that stuck in my mind was when they declared the end of major conflict. That's like stealing the ball, calling game over, running off, and complaining when the others try and get it back.

I don't bother thinking about it too much because we can only go off what the news tells us, which we know isn't true.

I do think about the soldiers we have over there though. What exactly does a soldiers contract cover? I found it odd that they could be called to kill animals following the foot and mouth, put out fires when the brigade is on strike, fight a war in Iraq, police Iraq and play at politics. They must be able to turn around and say "I'm not paid to do that" at some point? What's next? Londons tube drivers go on strike, army drivers called in to cover. Tony Blair goes on holiday... you get the idea. Do they have any rights in that respect?

Rick.

[Mister James]

No, not really.

It's ironic that the government who has emasculated the armed forces has relied so heavily on them.
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[colin1]

Nice to see everyone thinks it wa a big mistake.

The thing that gets me is that if our leaders invaded Iraq on incorrect information, they havnt said whoops or sorry, they have said well its ok because Saddam was a bad man.

Id have a lot more respect for them if they said "hey what could we do, we really believed all that shit we were telling you. I know you didnt believe us but we believed us. Its terrible that we have killed thousands of people for no good reason and if we could only turn back the clock etc"

Id even prefer it if they believed that they were still right but saddam had somehow hidden the weapons rather than we invaded on false evidence but its still a good thing we did cos hes a bad man.

Id like to believe that they deliberatly lied to us for oil and strategic interests but unfortunately I beleive that our leaders really were that fucking stupid to believe their own stories. They really did believe that Saddam was a threat.

If we go invading any country that we think might be a threat, this will mean we are the threat and people will take action against us.

I hope Blair's successor isnt into saving the world by bombing the shit out of another county.

The problem with Iraq is that Iran knows that if america gets Iraq under control with a new governement set up by them running it, America may invade Iran next. So its in Iran's interest to make sure there is chaos in Iraq for as long as possible.

Anyone into this kind of oil politics stuff should see the movie syriana in the cinema. Quite good and way more in-depth on this kind of thing than most movies.

also heres a snippit from a website

"the U.S. death toll in Iraq has surpassed the number of American soldiers killed during the first three years of the Vietnam War, "

https://www.veteransforpeace.org/US_War_Dead_111403.htm
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[colin1]

[Mister James]

The war has been over for years - what we are in now is a police action at the request of the Iraqi government. No quibbles about the legality of the initial military action will protect you from disobeying orders to fly out there now.

The fact that you can be charged and courtmartialed for it suggests that you do not actually have the right to choose what you want, as you have to fight the system to get the result you desire.
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>Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you...

[Spiral]

Colinwall i do not belive that blair thought saddamn was a threat he just wanted to play the big statesman with his buddy bush.

Nice to know thousands died so these 2 fucking morons could play 'im a big boy now'. Also blair is running britain into the ground (okay he has a lot of help from the rest of the morons who claim to be politicans)

I once witnessed the idiot that blair is, once he was asked about illegal immigrants and what he was doing to handle the situation.

His answer was "Oh i'd hate to think what would happen to london if all the illegal workers were forced to leave"

Yes mr blair you truly are a fucking MORON. I can't think of a single person who in the last decade has done more damage to britain.

Saddamn a threat, i'd rather have the threat of saddamn any day than a dickhead like tony blair running britiain.
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[innominate]

Wasted my tax money on a pointless war.



Remember the WMD's?
Conviniently that lie has been almost forgotten about.

Money for big business linked to governments seems to be the only benefit our country has got from this war.
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[colin1]

[Mister James]

[innominate]