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AdamEf
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PostPosted: 22:57 - 03 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:

Those 125 L plate riders have a numberplate, insurance and are just a phone call from a visit from the police. If you do't like what they are doing you pick up the phone and tell the rozzers reg number is riding like a tit/scratched up a car etc. etc. They are subject to the laws of the road and can easily be prosecuted.


Never actually happens though. Police are far too busy to follow things like that up.Not sure I'd agree with "easily" prosecuted.
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AdamEf
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PostPosted: 23:00 - 03 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm out. All these arguements have been played out a million times on the internet and there's real logical reasons why none of it would ever come to fruition.

Best of luck.
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 23:02 - 03 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

AdamEf wrote:

+ number plates for pushcahirs please. Just in case they have to squeeze down sides of cars parked up the pavements.

And shopping trolleys - you can only 'rent' one with insurance docs.
Also granny-trolley things.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 01:18 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jmon wrote:
mentalboy wrote:

WTF? I think you'll find a huge number of members on this site who use their bikes daily for commuting rather than as some weekend-gathering gleam job.


You've misinterpreted my post, it has nothing to do with chrome polishers.


I've just understood what your post meant Embarassed
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techathy
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PostPosted: 09:40 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
A cyclist is a road user. A pedestrian, a push chair and yobbo kids aren't. There is a difference.

Err.. all of those ARE road users. Rolling Eyes Laughing
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bamt
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PostPosted: 09:52 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep. And pedestrians should have increased premiums depending upon what after-market accessories they have installed that increase the risk of them causing an accident by walking into the road and making vehicles swerve (iPhones, etc).

Sadly the petition seems to have been removed, so HMG will never know the groundswell of public opinion that was being raised.
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Ste
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Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 11:12 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

bamt wrote:
Sadly the petition seems to have been removed, so HMG will never know the groundswell of public opinion that was being raised.

Don't worry, they made a new one.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/123375

Wink
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lihp
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:

Actually a lot more when I am walking my dog last thing at night than when I am driving my car.

Now the question is how many have I run down and driven over because I haven't seen them? Probably lots which I suspect is where the dents in my alloy rims have come from. Still, a bit like suicide bombers, they won't do it again.


Not see the point? All those cyclists in the dark, with no lights. yet you saw them fine? Do you have trouble seeing lamp posts? parked cars? Wet grids in the dark? Trees?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 13:34 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

A basic set of lights isn't expensive.

A front light is much more 'optional' than a back one.
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Bigvern72
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PostPosted: 13:39 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

lihp wrote:
Polarbear wrote:

Actually a lot more when I am walking my dog last thing at night than when I am driving my car.

Now the question is how many have I run down and driven over because I haven't seen them? Probably lots which I suspect is where the dents in my alloy rims have come from. Still, a bit like suicide bombers, they won't do it again.


Not see the point? All those cyclists in the dark, with no lights. yet you saw them fine? Do you have trouble seeing lamp posts? parked cars? Wet grids in the dark? Trees?


You're night right bright are you?

It is altogether possible to see the cyclist, but way too late to react. Or I'm guessing you have the reactions of superman and can swerve out of the way and avoid oncoming traffic.......or stop on a sixpence while travelling 30 miles an hour whilst conducting these amazing manoeuvres?

Either way you're arguing for the sake of arguing (ie trolling). It's perfectly possible to see things too late even in the daytime when visibility is perfectly normal, if the thing you're seeing is not in your vision at all.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigvern72 wrote:
It is altogether possible to see the cyclist, but way too late to react. Or I'm guessing you have the reactions of superman and can swerve out of the way and avoid oncoming traffic.......or stop on a sixpence while travelling 30 miles an hour whilst conducting these amazing manoeuvres?

Why are you driving too fast for the conditions?

Kittens etc.
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Sable
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not mind cyclists, and was one for 14 years, until I crashed my motorbike avoiding one who went through a red light at 6am, mid winter with no lights on. Fucker looked at me and rode off. I shlould have just hit the cunt.

I am on fussed with regards to registration plates on bikes.

But any twit caught riding in the dark with no lights on, or crossing red lights, should be stopped and have their pockets dipped.
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bamt
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankly, if you can't react to something in the road you are going too fast for the quality of your lighting/vision - regardless of if it is a cyclist, an animal, a hole or some debris. Or should absolutely everything around the road be draped in hi-viz and lit up like a christmas tree?

Having said that I do like a good bright flashing light on the back of a bicycle though; on a dim or dark road you can see them a good way off, so can (for example) avoid overtaking a line of cars as you know they are likely to be moving out themselves. My own bikes have high-end dynamo lighting (driven from the front hub so no issues in the wet, always there, automatically come on at dusk and will run for several minutes once I've stopped) - but I add a flashing back one too as it says "bicycle" to motorists.
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Sable
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

bamt wrote:
Frankly, if you can't react to something in the road you are going too fast for the quality of your lighting/vision - regardless of if it is a cyclist, an animal, a hole or some debris. Or should absolutely everything around the road be draped in hi-viz and lit up like a christmas tree?


No I do not think everything should be lit up like a Christmas tree. But when its dark, wet and miserable, with no street lights, and a cyclist has not one single light on their bike, while wearing dark clothes, and is waving all around the road due to bad weather conditions, the chances of you not seeing them before you hit them does increase somewhat.

At the very least bicycles on the road outside of daylight hours should have basic simple lights on.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if they weren't waving all around the road then their lack of lights wouldn't be a problem?
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Sable
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PostPosted: 14:03 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm, less of a problem. Lack of lights is still an issue. On unlit roads in bad weather they are still a pain in the arse to see.

I can understand arguments against number plates on bikes. I cannot understand any argument against compulsory lights on bikes outside of daylight hours.
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Bigvern72
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

bamt wrote:
Frankly, if you can't react to something in the road you are going too fast for the quality of your lighting/vision - regardless of if it is a cyclist, an animal, a hole or some debris. Or should absolutely everything around the road be draped in hi-viz and lit up like a christmas tree?

Having said that I do like a good bright flashing light on the back of a bicycle though; on a dim or dark road you can see them a good way off, so can (for example) avoid overtaking a line of cars as you know they are likely to be moving out themselves. My own bikes have high-end dynamo lighting (driven from the front hub so no issues in the wet, always there, automatically come on at dusk and will run for several minutes once I've stopped) - but I add a flashing back one too as it says "bicycle" to motorists.


Easy to say and very naive

Somebody pulls into your lane while your coming up to pass them. Driving too fast to stop? Maybe we should all crawl along at 10mph just to make your statement possible.

Yes many crashes are caused by people not riding/driving to suit the conditions - many are caused through sheer ignorance to other road users and cyclists are guilty of this as much as motorbikes, cars,vans, lorries or anything else classed as a vehicle by law. Yet all vehicles HAVE to have some form of insurance by law......except cycles (and motobility scooters it seems). Why us this fair when they can be the cause of an accident?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 16:21 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Somebody pulls into your lane while your coming up to pass them"

What does that have to do with whether the bike has lights?
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techathy
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PostPosted: 18:02 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sable wrote:
Hmmm, less of a problem. Lack of lights is still an issue. On unlit roads in bad weather they are still a pain in the arse to see.

I can understand arguments against number plates on bikes. I cannot understand any argument against compulsory lights on bikes outside of daylight hours.

Personally I'd like to see something along the lines of german law for new bikes - dynamo powered lights installed on all bikes except for light-weight (competition) bikes.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 18:49 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

bamt wrote:
Frankly, if you can't react to something in the road you are going too fast for the quality of your lighting/vision - regardless of if it is a cyclist, an animal, a hole or some debris. Or should absolutely everything around the road be draped in hi-viz and lit up like a christmas tree?



Deer are the exception to that rule, you'd have to drive everywhere at 20mph at night to minimise the damage one of those f***ers makes when it jumps over a hedge, they are easily the most scary of night-time hazards !!!
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Bigvern72
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PostPosted: 18:59 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
"Somebody pulls into your lane while your coming up to pass them"

What does that have to do with whether the bike has lights?


Feck all - it's illustrative and has to do with accidents and why cycles/itsts should be insured.
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bamt
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PostPosted: 19:06 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigvern72 wrote:
bamt wrote:
Frankly, if you can't react to something in the road you are going too fast for the quality of your lighting/vision - regardless of if it is a cyclist, an animal, a hole or some debris. Or should absolutely everything around the road be draped in hi-viz and lit up like a christmas tree?


Easy to say and very naive

Somebody pulls into your lane while your coming up to pass them. Driving too fast to stop? Maybe we should all crawl along at 10mph just to make your statement possible.


If someone pulls out then you'll hit them no matter what. Doesn't matter what lights, hi-viz or magic certificates they possess.

I think I'll continue to slow down to ride at an appropriate speed taking into account conditions and the quality of lights on the bike I happen to be on. That isn't an absurd 10mph, but does vary from bike to bike. It is certainly a little slower than a bright sunny day. Or are you saying that this is wrong, and I should blame anyone that I hit for my own excessive speed?
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techathy
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PostPosted: 19:13 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigvern72 wrote:
Ste wrote:
"Somebody pulls into your lane while your coming up to pass them"

What does that have to do with whether the bike has lights?


Feck all - it's illustrative and has to do with accidents and why cycles/itsts should be insured.

The requirement of insurance is there to compensate for the personal damage to other people from modes of transport which have a significantly higher risk of inflicting life long injury or death to another person than walking. This risk does not apply to cyclists so they do not need insurance. Your choice to use a dangerous & expensive to repair mode of transport has noting to do with cyclists nor pedestrians.

Oh and again I'd point out that most home contents insurance covers people for 3rd party damage liability when cycling as a freebie. Isn't that exactly what you're complaining about cyclists not having.
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Bigvern72
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PostPosted: 19:53 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


I think I'll continue to slow down to ride at an appropriate speed taking into account conditions and the quality of lights on the bike I happen to be on. That isn't an absurd 10mph, but does vary from bike to bike. It is certainly a little slower than a bright sunny day. Or are you saying that this is wrong, and I should blame anyone that I hit for my own excessive speed?


my point is that if a cycle pulls out on you and even if you manage to avoid him but not the fence you hit or the car you scrape.....it's your insurance that pays because the cycle doesn't need it by law.

Someone's tried to pull the point away about driving conditions etc which is all irrelevant.
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Bigvern72
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PostPosted: 19:56 - 04 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

The requirement of insurance is there to compensate for the personal damage to other people from modes of transport which have a significantly higher risk of inflicting life long injury or death to another person than walking. This risk does not apply to cyclists so they do not need insurance. Your choice to use a dangerous & expensive to repair mode of transport has noting to do with cyclists nor pedestrians.

Oh and again I'd point out that most home contents insurance covers people for 3rd party damage liability when cycling as a freebie. Isn't that exactly what you're complaining about cyclists not having.


Yes indeed - that's fine if it covers third party liability, I wasn't aware that it did. But then I've never needed to check it so I'm unaware that it does (home insurance that is). That's all I'm really interested in in this thread tbh. Causes etc are irrelevant. It's ability to recover fault free cost Smile
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