350 bullet Trials redux

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

Been having a play with this again. Still having trouble with the back end. Had another incident with the rear brake locking on, this time it took out the pivot, the brake plate, the shoes and deformed the swingarm plate to the extent it was cheaper and easier to get another one.

The main issue is with the longer shocks, the brake control rod was at totally the wrong angle. I did mostly fix this by re-hashing the brake lever with a longer arm on it and swapping out the control arm on the drum for a shorter one.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWGZGuMmOhbzeQ4Zod4KuGa3TrjiKxMntc_rd09K2Jgxl4hIrO8Ew8XECkaGjpBo-3hl7B4Ds_75-HXiwhWQSDGDnWaM6tJwhsVSTSFgX3w_E6RXSSgR_BwM55GmRsWpIBE5ySRcJ795Pf0SHPL9dyd=w1576-h886-no?authuser=0

I say mostly, because it did it again. Took out another brake plate and set of shoes. So I bit the bullet and went for a total re-design of things I'm not happy with.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLVi21UXCHsO-BwTA-OHP84bMfBNGtG23FV8EL8JlZ9Vh4Yf9XZeMujDbC-rqsgSmcP6_PmCK3ex2AwLckdqZOduUOC8p1yKzaG-YQPe_XxAqI4A8BUngmK9XwRZBbNXzqYqFKUhSL4AzGzXCKvgw3jz=w1576-h886-no

One thing is the brake plate. They are cheap shonky bits of pressed steel plate so when subjected to a high load, they flex, this cams the shoes on and results in cracked shoes and damage elsewhere.

Older models had cast alloy brake plates with plenty of webbing cast into them. I found one off a crusader sport on ebay. It didn't totally fit (but was remarkably close given there is nearly 40 years between the two models, the shoes fit and the pivot pin/cam fit), I had to have two external bosses turned down a bit and a new internal spacer made to preserve the chainline.

This left it a bit short on threads sticking out to bolt the stub axle on with so I also had to make a new snail cam adjuster from thinner steel. Quite pleased with that because it was all done with hand tools.

The brake actuation was a bit of a head scratcher. Longer travel and longer length shocks seem to mean the whole camming on under compression thing is going to be a feature. Then it came to me, convert it to a cable brake. The cable will flex with the swingarm movement.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWeH1LVxDA_1RBLmH_ETHKu70A-ZNL5H8g4kV05IcDCkCnf5AbpralpfAAQKguKzkoYN4VouWd_DsLJYmKsU4MzxOjJ4OvRZ6uZBhRTEQRVpap3l9wmH5j6VE6bHff4rVeBAN-6ONUteiDL3Yg0KNNx=w1576-h886-no

I fabricated a cable stop that travels with the wheel, it has a couple of tabs that fit into the slot to prevent rotation.

You may also be able to see a new shiny alloy sprocket. Chain clearance was still an issue, even with a chain slider and tension wheel. Again a simple solution, bigger sprockets. So I'm going up 3 teeth on the front and I can't remember how-many on the rear (but it's a lot) to maintain the same gearing, just running over larger sprockets.

I've re-visited the bolt-on rear sprocket concept. Last time it kept working loose. This time the sprocket is an interference fit on the brake drum and would probably stay in place all by itself. I've fitted the bolts with green thread lock and they have some fancy camming lock washers and nylok nuts on the back. Then I piked the heads of the bolts and the nuts with a centrepunch. If they undo now, I'm going to weld the nuts onto the back of the bolts!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLWrXzGaproHmu0NpIJynPhkVRKVQuhtt08-40SNY2z-dzSZlEWMKlkd2r0MxyDImTgRF1KTbgaRkHV4K-Lgq_etla6fLPyEW87AOx4bcj22sWifvmLze2-Pvqda5t6ryw0gF7XalFmPDViOB4FHRCQ2=w1576-h886-no

The front cable stop is a bit of high grade alloy angle bolted through a frame gusset plate.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLUpmdK2GO0pA8m3FyktYDGMLJW-BI3cpBQYvw6kYXcQstIhJ-tk2gXWiEt3nYbyrncqGrLjPz0L3-knvp1x7LcUiegmtRn3DBY497qugeUgXOWQZjeosQeZuPomES8T4q30rwIESO5FmE5A4sPXaaVf=w1576-h886-no

The cable was again a bit of a head scratcher. I'm ok with cables but this needs a threaded end to attach and adjust at the brake arm. Those are usually swaged on which I'm not equipped to do. After a good coat of looking-at I went on ebay and looked through car handbrake cables until i found one that fit the bill. It's off an Alfa Romeo of some sort but has a swaged threaded section on one end. It's way too long but I can cut it back and solder on a nipple for the clevis joint on the brake lever. That bit's on hold until the cable arrives.

Got to do the front sprocket tomorrow then measure up for a longer chain. Front sprocket is a PITA to do, you have to remove the alternator, clutch and primary chaincase to get at it.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

Front sprocket change was surprisingly easy, It's almost like I've done it before.

I also checked the sprocket tooth counts. I've gone from 14 x 38t to 18 x 49t.

Also swapped out the clutch basket for a better one I had lying about because there was a hell of a lot of play on the current one. Not too suprprising because it's been in the bike from new. I could change the bearings but there must be 60-odd 1/16" balls in there, I'd have to be a lot more bored than I am now to sit down with that one...
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

This looks like it should do the job. The cable is super heavy duty, 3mm diameter. I couldn't find an appropriate nipple to use so I drilled down the centre of a short M6 allen head and soldered that on as a nipple to go in the clevis.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLXl__DYPae-xjZjMUbu9WxloxFeVA_kdO58CX--cWPx4sApQvs-cOPqcoK1d-C620X02gw2X17u7jK0e56HmwpA4I56aH5F6VI-Xaamzjz0f34LKIaOx1pH27qAWTxhG0XkvPk1xknobpAJe6kXcKzW=w1576-h886-no

I wasn't appy with the top cable stop, then I looked at the thing they use on the front brake. I just drilled two holes in a bit of EN1 hex bar, one was tapped for a stud to hold it to the frame, the other tapped for a cable adjuster to allow a little more adjustment before bottoming out the threaded section.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLX3Te2UZFAQfpBbDvH7RH8LVMgqjpsh53WKGlfo8USiFh8-10VO9DlCxC-TzwrnHWZubO28j-et595h42QY9Zf9tDFToTYp8-ZESqg70Rga0aFL1aORazektpr4rP5WVAEtiCBEC3QWhiY_6i6D4p5v=w1576-h886-no

I'll need to grind a bit more off the corner of this cable stop so it doesn't foul the snail cam.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AM-JKLXGsKbAmBXcJzR_Yg4k_WJmMTHxwq97xMDJPuLtPwrrS3veJOw6Tn3vlpYG1H8N3Rta1jEHE8PpfS5WOg5Gsk8MtR1bxd4FShpvR4E4qzrC2OauD7Ovi4K3aEzV9NiPCuCe1A0e86Ikq8dveoos8Spa=w1576-h886-no

I still need to get a new brake cam fitted (threads are stripped on this one), bed the shoes and give it a road test.
L:ink to short video
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

Zen Dog · World Chat Champion Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Karma :

These kind of trials look like good fun, glad the Bullet held up. How did the guy on the CT125 get on? Curious how well the new ones hold up offroad without the low range box like the original ones. I have this kind of half formed fantasy about going and buying one in Thailand and riding it back to the UK. Almost certainly won't happen but it keeps hanging around as an idea...
____________________
Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

Bhud · World Chat Champion Joined: 11 Oct 2018 Karma :

Missed your post but that's the epitome of BCF - great stuff. The ideal. Hope you realise that what you're doing is the envy of every Youtube influencer from here to the west coat of America.

Shaft · World Chat Champion Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Karma :

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

I made a video walkaround of the trials bike. Made a new rear brake lever since last time and managed to shoehorn a 4" rear tyre in.

https://youtu.be/qF6H8qQntP4
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

Zen Dog · World Chat Champion Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Karma :

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

Yeah, the engine was hot and I'd put the choke on for some reason which is why it wouldn't start. It would have gone first prod otherwise.

It's pretty much for doing long distance classic/reliability trials. Most clubs allow Indian Bullets to enter in the pre '65 class on the basis that it's actually the 1950's frame and the engines are if anything less poky than the Reddich built ones. An early 60's enfield makes a far more capable trials bike.

I'm a real tinkerer and having finished the 612 bullet, I don't need another roadgoing bullet. Always fancied a crack at motorsports and since there's a well established use of these bikes in trials, it made sense to use it.

I've got it entered into two local trials. I have a longer term aim to do one of the big MCC trials on it once my skill level is higher and the bike is more proven. The LDTs aren't as full on as traditional classic trials. No real rock-hopping or riding up cliffs. More a cross between an on/off road navigation exercise and observed sections on diabolically poor bits of road. The bikes used in these tend to be the heavier twinshock variety, more of a road bias than a pure trials bike (I need to hold 85 miles of fuel on my local on for one thing). The rules tend to have a minimum weight and length limit and strict rules on tyre type to prevent people entering big enduro bikes or featherweight trials bikes.

If you look up footage of the Exeter, Lands End and Edinburgh MCC trials. That's pretty much what it's been built for.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

Well. Did an actual modern trial today. This turned out to be way more than both bike and rider were capable of!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AMWts8CDx0x7vYCtHTiOIofDOumcS4mGMMet1U3gG7Aoy_P6UKAZhxYpnDXB6-3vH-VhtP6t36ouv3pMTmR5CTIg_nvvAB_8SLepO-FlZb3kRp1LARQ1sEGj2wMgj4TnJvkYDRFv-mZwsSb32nyC0PvrqVhp=w490-h870-no

I attempted one section but made a total dogs breakfast of it. I eventually made it round one lap of the course with a lot of footing, dragging, walking and on a couple of occasions assistance to drag it out of a precarious situation.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AMWts8DV_PwKq6NCe6I5sLL9cUy5ou4gzQKUZBzbu5VEughs-Pz1_AazCA1gnFjEQ55C02A1-whbYA8nwOpLNnrTqCpfF6ied_qMyfqzWTOyq-z_mgOd6AT2apFj8bVy74LWtP0UIRSzIJP1Npny7jT_ba2E=w1547-h870-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AMWts8Acl30WqYGNttQ47OP_mj_CQkNFRXj-UhjqvSft45ILv4wbLOxrmlAPfOpCCZWKm8OpM43gtVhDEGuqKOVZSIjoSyGhB5fV1eIn2INaB7D3_fCuAUA8lnZbtbm2BMm5pcLqS8eWK9vpDXtVY4CRhVWL=w1547-h870-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AMWts8B-_lxuhpNvGNj8TieRAc_fKd1M-mBRQ4sG9-cs6Qu_vd84HQtT7WOTRwCjqa7IkzHgv9iyAKqN5P_DdZThdH7k1TCPdCEssaRXvJLuoHl_-RnknXTMi-sLMn2NaYQGEy2BO28ULpSaCHi72ryEIoao=w490-h870-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AMWts8AFrpCJnIE98XtwJcgbNdByXe15w1eG-L5vOL-kO2VdtvmbP-O-9XAW-HfUASpFWRAjGqU8zzdAY0PsCyImgL0LbP8l61PsdA8xeosYLRLWE1RCXiPmF7P-mH27Mboqi-OB4PYqugmjXxVID2f8VcLk=w490-h870-no

Of note there was one bit with an off-camber muddy track alongside a beck where i simply couldn't find grip, even with the tyre down to 4psi. I got stuck and was helped out once. Eventually I gave in to what the bike was trying to do and dropped down into the beck itself which at least had rocks and boulders on the bottom.

At the furthest out point there was a steep grassy/muddy hill to get up for the exit (or try to go back up the ravine). Ran out of puff going up the hill the first time. Got some advice and encouragement the second attempt and went at it full-send. Grip and momentum abandoned me about 10ft from the top but it was near enough to walk the bike up with a little assistance. You can see these attempts towards the end of the video.

All good fun though, a valuable learning experience and the parts i did manage really pushed my limits. The consensus was my rear tyre is shite, if i was going to do this kind of thing again, I really need to get an 18" wheel and michelins. I'd also need even lower gearing. Next months long distance trial will seem like a walk in the park, the route round this course was harder than the observed sections on the LDT.

I need to make a new rear brake lever, my current one lasted the whole trial then fell off on the way home!
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AMWts8A8AMy0Ui3YHRHGZ3OKZ-dM2Gkc0lNd17396_co8UeiWpxT2BHkQf0mQfrZJzkd4GH1UhfFT6V1qiUkrYDl3rvYdas8ZVa-oZwpknAvUD-sy6-G6r2PwdZXxIe1ayy7BCqFDjLDlq5259P8ccpUhujF=w490-h870-no

Huge thanks are due to the other competitors who helped drag my heavy old bus out of trouble on two occasions and were free with their help, patience and advice. Also many thanks to Mrs stinkwheel who spectated, filmed and encouraged her silly old sod of a husband trying to do a young lads sport on an old mans bike!

The video is a bit of a potted affair, I just stuck all the footage together. As ever, the video doesn't do justice to how steep and muddy things were!
https://youtu.be/q5ESrb041vw
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

A100man · World Chat Champion Joined: 19 Aug 2013 Karma :

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

Easy-X · Super Spammer Joined: 08 Mar 2019 Karma :

A100man · World Chat Champion Joined: 19 Aug 2013 Karma :

Bhud · World Chat Champion Joined: 11 Oct 2018 Karma :

Ah, getting in deep, eh... It's an ever-tempting allure whenever you've found an enjoyable activity. Does it usually work out? Don't know. Personally, I avoid any games I can't win. I especially avoid any activity where the only people who are good at it are those who have been doing it since childhood. But if it doesn't sour your taste for the newfound activity, then it's not too bad, I suppose. It all boils down to your personal value system and if you ever think you're good enough.

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

I seem to usually do this kind of thing with obscure, unusual or outdated equipment. Ready made excuse right there. A bit like my single-speed, rigid mountain bike or entering a canoe race in a homemade plywood canoe. Even if I'm last, I still win..
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

Bhud · World Chat Champion Joined: 11 Oct 2018 Karma :

Yep, I totally get it. Niche of one.
Always was a dangerous place to be, though, when in the company of others.
Older machinery gives you a greater personal sense of satisfaction, and all your motivation was/is intrinsic.

Zen Dog · World Chat Champion Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Karma :

I saw a suggestion a while ago that at olympic events, they should have a randomly selected normal person take part as a "control" for comparison. Seeing the Bullet take part in a proper trials event very much reminds me of this. Very Happy

Watching the other trials bikes (even the guy with the red trousers on the classic one), you can see the bikes almost mold themselves to the terrain, sinuously absorbing the bumps and maintaining contact at all times. The Bullet on the other hand, seems to hit every rock giving the impression that it expects the rock to get out of the way, and being surprised when it doesn't. I'm sure you could improve your technique, and perhaps the more experienced guys might have made a better fist of it if they'd been riding it, but really you're dealing with the limitations of the bike more than anything. To be a competent trials bike (in the modern sense), it's really lacking in almost every area. But the upside is that any area you improve (weight, suspension travel/softer springs/better damping, lower gearing, bigger rear wheel etc.) should have more of an impact and noticably improve the dynamics.

Kudos for having a bash though. It's like watching someone trying to do dressage on a water buffalo.
____________________
Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :