Advice needed for a newbie

[Tony Norton]

Hi All,

I haven't been around for over a month, mainly because a switch from Virgin Media to City Fibre didn't go as well as it should have. I have been without internet access from midnight 16-06-22 thru 27-07-22. However, all is now sorted and I am back to plague you with my queries and problems.

BRUN asked "How did it go?". Well, not as well as I expected. The first snag was being informed, only 3 days before the test date, that my instructor had gone down with Covid.

Therefore no practice the day before the test. No accompanied ride from Bournemouth to the test site at Poole, I got my Grandson to ride the Rebel to Poole for me. Nowhere to warm up at the test site, so I am into the test cold, not having ridden the bike for about a month. Result fail.

Not as bad as it sounds, I did do the slalom, figure of 8, and "U" turn without any problems, but generally failed for being too slow. e.g. I was doing all the "life saver" looks OK but I approached the "U" turn so slowly that the examiner said that by the time I made the turn something could have come up behind me so I should have done the lifesavers again. On the emergency stop I was well under the required 32mph, a shade under 20mph, and the examiner thought it might have been dangerous to get me to do it again at the required speed. End of test.

I reckon though, that the experience was well worth the £15 it cost. Next time I will know where I am going.

Which leads me to Plan K, or is it Plan L? I forget, but I am way past Plan B. I have purchased an AJS Cadwell 125, nice low seat and narrow. Idea being that I can get in plenty of road practice and experience on my own, no lashing out £150 every time I want to go out on the Rebel. I am now thinking in terms of taking an A1 test on the Cadwell. I discussed this idea with my instructor, and he thinks it a good idea. I've had to go this route as the insurers will no longer cover me for the Rebel since I failed the A2 Mod1. Hopefully when, and if, I pass the A1 Mods 1 and 2 they will be more willing to cover me on the Rebel.

That's the latest plan, a step by step approach. After my experience of the SV650 I realised there is no way I could go DAS.

Well, that's the latest guys and gals. I will be back in touch soon.

All the best to you all,

Tony

[A100man]

Great stuff Tony. Plan L sounds good. Keep us up to date!
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[to v or not to v]

if at first you dont succeed...
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current bike Yamaha Thunderace.
its old and fat, but its a damned good ride. the bikes not bad either.

[Fat Angry Scotsman]

Glad to see the failure hasn't put you off. I put my foot down on my figure of eight, in retrospect I was probably trying to do it too tight.

Onwards and forwards mate, good luck in the future re-test!
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PRESENT: 2018 BMW S1000XR SE Sport.
PAST: 2009 Kawasaki ER-6F. 2021 Zontes ZT-125U.

[BRUN]

keep going Tony

im sure the time on the 125 will help, it did with me, I couldnt block book lessons so sometimes had many weeks in between them, sometimes a few months actually because of covid

I failed my mod1 first time, on the figure of 8, you will get there

The 'practice' of doing that test was well worth £15

[Ste]

[Fat Angry Scotsman]

[Tony Norton]

Hi All,

took my A1 Mod1 this afternoon. Failed again. Not on any of the manoeuvres, but speed through the gate on the emergency stop. Attempt 1, 42kph. Attempt 2, 45 kph. (28mph)! Failed for the sake of being 2mph under our legal urban speed limits. My little 125 just couldn't muster enough acceleration in 3rd. Next time, I'm advised by the examiner to stay in 2nd and rev the hell out of it. Why do car learners get it so easy. "Drive along here at the legal speed limit, and when I knock my clipboard on the dash, stop."

So next time I'll take out my hearing aids, so I don't hear that poor little engine complaining and stay in 2nd. Something approaching 9000rpm should do the business.

Annoying thing now is, they don't have any test times available, except for 08:15 on December 28th, and I'm not inclined to get up that early, it's about a half hour ride from my place to Poole, (the nearest test centre), on a cold December morning during Christmas week. I'll just have to monitor the site every day until they put up the January dates.

Cheers all, hopefully I'll have better news next time.

Tony N.

[ThunderGuts]

Ah that's a shame. Plenty of people come short on the speed on 75bhp A-bikes though if that's any consolation! Yeah, rag it in 2nd next time - I don't think going over is a problem and on a 125 you're not going to be doing 40mph or anything daft just by winding it open.
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TG.

[Zen Dog]

From what I've seen of the MOD1, it genuinely is a bit of a challenge to go fast enough on a low powered 125, especially as a learner. You really do have to "ride it like you stole it" to achieve the required speed.

Hope you have better luck on the next one.
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Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011

[Nobby the Bastard]

When I was riding a 125 it was a pinned throttle everywhere.

Literally to th eextent that when the throttle stuck on I just controlled my speed by using the rh on/off switch and that was on a 90's derestricted 2T.

Just pin the fucking thing and rev the fuck out of it. It's not your bike, you don't care about maintaining it.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Triumph Sprint ST 1050

[Tony Norton]

Hi Nobby,

well actually, in this case, it is my bike. £3Ks worth of new AJS Cadwell, which is why I worry about over revving it. I want it to get me through Mod 1 and Mod 2, so with, hopefully, a full A1 licence I'm hoping the insurance company will think again about covering me for my Rebel 500. If so, I will be better able to get to my compromise target of a full A2 licence.

Cheers

Tony N

[Ste]

You're not going to over rev it because the bike has a rev limiter.

To accelerate you need to make use of all the rev range and I believe it has a 10,000rpm red line?

Stop changing gear early and everything will be great.

[Tony Norton]

Thanks for that Ste,

yes, your are right, the red line is 10K, and I was not aware that it had a rev limiter.

Trouble is, since I packed up racing cars 40 years ago I've got too used to driving around in a low revving automatic. Currently an elderly 3 litre BMW which spends most of its life round about 2 to 3K, or less in urban areas. It's mostly the noise of high revs that has been a cause for concern.

Anyway, your advice has been very helpful, and I now realise there are times when high revs are the order of the day.

Cheers
Tony

[ThunderGuts]

Bike engines, particularly air-cooled single cylinders, are generally not as refined as car engines. Your 3 litre 6 pot beemer will be silky smooth. An air-cooled 125 single will always sound harsh, especially when revved, but bike engines are designed to be revved. As long as it's not brand new (less than 500 miles), the oil level is good and it's warmed up, don't worry about revving the nuts off it - it'll be fine.
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TG.

[Tony Norton]

You've hit the nail on the head.

I bought the bike new in July, and so far it's only done 329Km. Guess, while I'm waiting to book another Mod 1, (there's only 1 available this year - 08:15 on Dec 28th and I'm not keen on taking that), I had better get some miles in at up to 6000rpm to ensure it is well run-in before my next effort.

Many thanks,
Tony N

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

how come it's in km??
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"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[Tony Norton]

My guess is that, although designed and spec'd in UK by AJS, it is built in China, and it's probably cheaper to change the speedometer dial to mph/kph (instead of just kph) than it would be to change the gearing of the odometer. Just a guess.

[Tony Norton]

Hi there all you knowledgeable bikers,

having now failed my A1 Mod1 twice I desperately need some advice.

My first failure was down to not being fast enough through the speed trap (45kph was my best). I've now got that sussed, 2nd gear round the curve winding it up as I progress through the curve and then giving it full throttle as soon as I straighten up. That works. I recorded 52kph for the emergency stop, 54kph for the avoidance.

I was not fully aware of, or practiced for, the fact that for the avoidance, after the jink left through the blue cones it is necessary to jink right to get back on the original track before stopping with any part of the bike within the area bounded by 4 blue cones. That said I failed the avoidance due to clipping a cone. Game over!

The question that arises from this is: - what part of the bike is used to measure the speed? When can I safely shut the throttle to bring down the speed to something that, for me at least, might be more manageable when doing the avoidance?

Any comments/advice would be most welcome.

Cheers
Tony Norton

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

If you own a 125 it's very easy to find the dimensions of the Mod 1 layout - as you must surely know by now. So, armed with the relevant information, you find a suitable space on a deserted industrial estate sometime on a Sunday morning and just practise these things. There's no more to it than that. If you DON'T have a 125cc I have no answer.
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"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[Tony Norton]

Hi Trevor,

yes, I do have all the dimensions of the test layout, but the info I was after, as there is no need to maintain the 50kph after ones speed has been clocked, is at what point does the speed sensor record the speed?

Is it when the front wheel has crossed the first line between the first 2 cones spaced at 1.5m wide, or when the rear wheel has cleared the line between the second pair, 1m further on, or something in between? Now I know I can achieve the requisite speed I see no point in maintaining that speed any longer than is necessary. Any reduction in speed from thereon can only help me to control the manoeuvre.

Yes I do have my own 125, plus a box of cones, and know an area where I can mimic exactly the test layout, but no means of checking my speed other than by looking at the speedo, which is not ideal, and not something one would be doing when doing an emergency stop, or avoidance on the road.

Maybe I'm asking a question that nobody, examiners excepted, would know the answer to.

Cheers
Tony N

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

I honestly think there's a bit of latitude with these things - if you're acquitting yourself well throughout the mod1 test a slight lack of speed here and there will be overlooked. If you're showing decent levels of both competence and confidence, doing all your shoulder checks and proceeding as though you know what you're doing, and why, you'll get a pass.

I want to say you're overthinking it. Get good on - and with - the bike. Improve familiarity with the mod 1 spatial plan - and when you've done that, foreshorten key distances and see if you can still complete the manoeuvres. You know the psychology of it: If you know you can e.g. do the u-turn a metre tighter, and the cones a foot closer together, etc. etc. you'll be that much more confident when you do it all for real.

This confidence will be evident in each of the manoeuvres and you won't be stressing about precise speeds, and whether and, or, when you can get away without doing such and such a speed, etc. You'll just simply do what's needed to pass the test.

Familiarise yourself with what a given speed feels like - what does 20mph feel like, and 25 and 30. Get so that you can tell to within e.g. 1 or 2 mph how fast your going. Tbh you should kind of be able to do that already - and you probably can. So the rest is therefore irrelevant.

Roger Borg always said this about the Mod 1: It's an easy test to fail - but it's also an easy test to pass. That's the simple truth of it.
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"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[Tony Norton]

Hi Trevor,

nowadays there doesn't seem to be much latitude. I get the impression that the speed sensor is linked by WiFi direct to the DVSA. So an under speed reading, as mine was on my first test, is an instant fail. My latest test was for 14:35 yesterday and I received an email from the DVSA timed at 14:46 "Result...........UNSUCCESSFUL......... etc." So, like hitting a cone, there is no latitude whatsoever. I think the only thing over which the examiner has some degree of flexibility is if you dab a foot down on the inside of a turn.

Anyway, many thanks for your useful tips. It was just a bit annoying on my most recent test, that we didn't start with the slalom etc, I got through that OK on the previous test, but this time my examiner went straight into what I had failed on previously, with the intention of doing the rest if I got through that OK, which I did, but failed on the avoidance.

"Foreshorten". I have been doing a bit of that, like a U turn in 3 parking spaces, which is 0.3m less than the standard 7.5m. "Overthinking". My grandson, who has been on bikes for 17 years and currently rides an elderly Honda Blackbird, says exactly the same.

Thanks for help mate.

Tony N

[ThunderGuts]

There's no subjectivity in the speed trap; a few kph under and you get a minor (I think from memory?) but if it's too low then that's it.

Tony - just focus on getting the speed up to a decent level. You'll never be going so fast on a 125 that the avoidance will be impossible afterwards. The key is to do the manoeuvring first then aim straight for the cones and brake. If you try and feather in the brakes before you've straightened up it'll try and stand the bike up and you'll have a hard time, if not impossible, to get the bike to finish where you want it to.
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TG.

[Keithy]

47kph you get another go, 48/9kph you get a minor, so it’s allowable.

Not sure how the sensor works, there are two ‘bars’ from memory, but if you have to hit both with both wheels, or if it just registers first hit on each bar I don’t know.

Apparently it is a beam, so it would have to be the front wheel breaking the rear then the front beam, as the rear wheel would just confuse readings? Guessing.