4x4's are getting muscled out of London

[m99dws]

I'd have a large 4x4 if I had the money, purely for the comfort and room.

[Kickstart]

[msgander]

Whilst a lot of women with kids have them for status, there is also a plus side in that you dont kill your back every time you haul the kids in and out of them because they are a decent height.

I agree that most people in London do NOT need 4x4's and indeed if a 4x4 does not show at least a hint of mud, then you dont need it, there are plenty of cars like MPV's that offer kid haulage in and out without killing your back, and WITH the space you need for multiple brats.

However, I have to say if I lived in London with brats, no matter how good public transport is, I would drive, its due to the time factor involved especially if you work. If you are a rich bitch with nothing else to do then fine I'd take the tube.

You wont stop the chelsea tractors because an issue has been made now and people like that will do it all the more just to make a point. Especially when they have money.
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Always believe that your guardian angel flies a bit faster than you...............

[Rookie]

The only people I see that drive 4x4s are farmers, families and overly wealthy erntrepreneurs/executives. The farmer driving one is a totally seperate issue. The families, well it's well known that 4x4s are the safest vehicle to be in during a crash, so many parents will take the less efficient, more expensive car in order to feel safer about having kids in the back.

The entrepreneurs/execs are the ones I hate. My old boss has a £40k Mercedes 4x4 with the biggest engine. She never goes offroad, I've never seen her with anyone other than herself in there, she doesn't have kids, a husband, a boyfriend, a dog or a caravan, and she has a very expensive private number plate on it. So it's entirely a status symbol.

I think if it works at all then it's a good thing to implement. But really the ones who drive around on their own in these things are going to be on a high enough income to have it make very little difference.

[Mister James]

[craigie b]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the average 4 x 4 get about 35mpg? Which is about the smae as a 1.8 car from 10 years ago...I only mention this because I drive an old car and I fail to see the point of branding a 4x4 a gas guzzler when older cars are as bad.

[JonB]

In addition to what Craigie B said if the government and the public really cared about emissions they would know that 4x4's are not the most polluting vehicles.

Now I know this is a bike forum, but what about these 10+ year old 2 strokes that are still on the roads. I don't even wanna know what comes out of those exhausts, though it must be bad cause it smells nice.

If the government really wanted to penalise on emissions i'd put money on old 2 stroke motorbikes being outlawed quite quickly.
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Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it?s worth.

[headlamp]

Until it was stolen my other mode of transport was a Land Rover Discovery V8. I live in London, and probably drove off-road in it twice. I used it mainly at the weekends. I'd had it from nearly new for 7 years, before all this ridiculous rhetoric blew up, and most people didn't have 4x4's in London

The reason why I had one? I've got 4 kids. So as a family if we'd go out that's 6 people. 2 in the front, 3 in the middle and one in the back. When the kids were younger we'd have to take a buggy and other baby paraphenalia and there was room next to seat at the back to stuff it in. As I got back into DJing later on, the Discovery was a great workhorse to carry (big) speakers, decks, mixers, vinyl etc., to venues, as well as people who'd come along too. The driving position was good and when the weather is bad (on the occasions it snowed in London) I drove to work knowing the 4 wheel drive would keep me safe.

I've subsequently got my insurance money and am actively looking to replace it. I need a 6/7 seater, with the load flexibility & heeding the advice of Ken - I've tried a Previa , Galaxy/Sharan , Voyager , and the Vauxhall thing - compared to a Discovery, they are like driving anything from van to a pimpmobile and are totally impractical in terms of load carrying vs. people. I am going to get another Discovery and begrudgingly pay the extra road tax and will probably never use it in Central London during the week....I've never paid the Congestion Charge.

The problem is the Mayor is using the 4x4 'issue' to get at the more wealthy residents of London - they'd never vote for him anyway - garner votes from the environmentalists who also resent the wealthy mothers of Chelsea or wherever, under the guise of 'climate change'. If he pushes this through there will be other cars/groups/whatever, that will be subject to 'punitive taxes' & I wouldn't be at all surprised if motorbikes get subjected to something in under 5 years because they are 'anti-social' or 'dangerous'.
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Using a mobile phone while driving a car should be made a capital offence!

[Ste]

Can we ban big sportsbikes from london as well? No need for 180mph+ racing machines around town, just completely unnecessary people having bikes like that around London as people only want them as a status symbol. Most bikes around London will never be used on a race track, if people want to see quite how dangerous these bikes are then they just need to look to Chelsea Bridge or the Ace Cafe, remember your camcorders so you can help build up evidence against bikes in London.

People should be more careful about being loudmouthed trying to get other vehicle types banned/restricted when bikes are also a very easy target.

[zaknafien]

[Ste]

Doesn't bother me in the slightest if they want to raise it for big 4x4's as I don't have to pay the congestion charge.

[TheDonUK]

[Zimbo]

Primary safety is pretty good on most 4x4s, they're well built and generally come out well in a collision.
Secondary safety, however, is not good. Because they weigh a lot and carry their weight high to improve ground clearance, they are inherently unstable when compared to your average road car. Add soft, long travel suspension and they become even more unstable. Chunky mud - gripping tyres have less grip on tarmac. The heavy weight and soft suspension also lead to poor braking performance, with emergency stops taking significantly longer to bring the vehicle to a halt.
All this conspires to make the 4x4 far more likely to spin and / or roll than most road cars. A sudden manouver like a swerve to avoid a sudden hazard appearing in the road (small child perhaps) which would be carried out without fuss by your average family hatchback could well result in a nasty crash for the 4x4.

[Didge]

[G]

Remember they aren't banning 4x4s specifically. They are making those people which have the worst carbon emissions pay more.

Whether this is an accurate reflection on pollution caused is another matter, of course.

[headlamp]

[TheDonUK]

[headlamp]

[TheDonUK]

Thats puts me in my place

[tokarev]

It may be true that some 4x4 are not more safe than an average car, but some of the proper ones are built like tanks.

My uncle lives in Africa, and so sometimes has to go through some rough terrain, with potholes the size of swimming pools in the middle of the road or steep muddy inclines to negotiate. So he has a Nissan Patrol. It is giant and feels like a bloody tank.

https://img.avizier.ro/oferte/vanzari-auto-masini-straine/vand-nissan-patrol-gr-22520-3.jpg

He was once telling me how someone crashed their car into the back of the 4x4. He got out and was expecting a lot of damage, but when he got out, there was not even a scratch on the 4x4. The other car whom had crashed into the 4x4 on the other hand had quite a lot of damage.

Sorry for straying a little bit offtopic, but I really like the proper 4x4 rather than things like the Porsche Cayenne.

[G]

[tokarev]

True!

I remember we took a very quick tight turn to the right, and the the tire must have bent in on itself under the weight, causing the 4x4 to veer off course. But that may be because of dodgy tyre pressures...I am not too sure.

[m99dws]

[G]

Lets for a minute look at a hypothetical case where there is a lot of pollution in London and something needs to be done about it.

What would you do accounting for 'real world' people and siutations?
(Aimed at people in general)

[Kickstart]