Downsizing - cheapest bikes for insurance

[Easy-X]

[A100man]

[Easy-X]

Linked was an almost bone-stock bike! I think the text is wrong 'cos that looks like the stock seat.

With regards to fuelling systems, it'll come as no surprise the engine on this and the classics & bullets is a very old design, originally carb'd. EFI is your drop-in replacement for Euro 3 & 4 emissions conformity.

Purists will rip out the throttle body in favour of an Amal "as nature intended" whereas a Mikuni offers a simple performance upgrade vs. the wiring faff of a PowerCommander ECU bypass. You're back to swapping jets and fiddling with needle positions but you don't need a laptop

I think the main issue is the Euro 3/4 ECUs weren't particularly well implemented by Royal Enfield. I've seen the same sort of thing with Chinese 125s that suddenly go EFI half way through the production run. A carb conversion = better performance, more reliable and cooler running temperature (crucial for an air-cooled engine.) You also end up with gravity fed fuel. Fuel pump in the bin = less to go wrong.
____________________
Royal Enfield Continental GT 535, Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[stinkwheel]

I think that unit construction motor was designed as an EFI. Just enfield owners tend to understand carbs. It's not a straightforward conversion either, you need to change out the ignition system too because it's linked to the EFI.

One advantage is it'll start and run on a nearly flat battery with a carb. If there's not enough power to crank it electrically, there isn't enough to power up the FI, which means the kickstart is effectively redundant and a standard one.

Of course, if you keep the FI, you can fit a performance kit (cams, valves, filter and dynojet) which gives you a 40% power increase... Or you can go full retard and spend the purchase price again fo the 612 kit.
https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/612-graph.jpg
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Easy-X]

You may be giving Royal Enfield too much credit, with regards to the ignition system, at least when it comes to Euro 3 version.

Glancing at the Hitchcock instructions it only mentions fuel pump delete and swapping in the carb. Apart from a dummy plug for the fuel injector and disconnecting the now very upset "engine management" light that's all you do. The Euro 4 kit does have a dummy for the TPS sensor so either the Euro 3 setup is keyed off something different, e.g. RPMs, mechanical advance or just doesn't have an ignition timing map at all! Very curious now how it's all thrown together.

Knowing RE they probably had this "modernish 500" engine running carbs in India before catching up with European standards.

<addendum> The workshop manual certainly has TPS and MAP sensors, the Hitchcock fitting instructions must have something missing for the Euro 3 kit
____________________
Royal Enfield Continental GT 535, Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Easy-X]

Update: put the deposit down for a 2014 Continental GT 535. AFAIK this would make it a EURO 3 model sans ABS and it should be the case this is marked down as ULEZ compliant.

I have a plan, somewhat masochistically, of going down the carb-conversion route and eventually removing the ECU altogether. Given there is a wealth of pre-EFI models and parts I believe success will be contingent on finding a stator that fits and which incorporates a trigger coil for the TCI unit used in previous generations.

If at all possible I'd like to end up with something with nothing more complicated than the aforementioned TCI unit with all of the things like lighting and safety lock-out switches running via relays and diodes. It'd also be nice if one could kick it over without a battery or at least a near flat battery without the umph left to turn the starter motor.

Why? Just for the challenge really I've already done the other end of the spectrum with the Husky and its ECU bypass - very nice bike now, very happy with the outcome - be interesting to attempt the diametric opposite

Update to the update: "after assessing the bike it's failed our checks in multiple areas" apparently it needs new fuel pump, injector, engine rebuilt... oh really?! Fuck it, sell it to me at a discount, I was going to rebuild it anyway but computer says no. The one time Superbike Factory had a bargain and it turns to smoke

I think I'll try and track down one of the older 500's Mr. Stinkwheel mentioned, if I can find one with the shifter and rear brake in the contemporary positions
____________________
Royal Enfield Continental GT 535, Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Freddyfruitba...]

[Easy-X]

[stinkwheel]

I should mention, back to the original subject that I have four bikes on the road. A 350 bullet which is a trials bike but I haven't made any mention of that to the insurance. A 612 bullet which has the many, many modifications declared. A VFR750 and a Minsk 125.

According to my recent renewal. The Minsk 125 (9-ish bhp, cost £500 when new) is the "main" bike with the highest insurance risk. Followed by the tuned bullet, followed by the 350 bullet, followed by the VFR.

So the one which has more power than the other three combined is the lowest insurance risk. Two bikes which are physically incapable of breaking the speed limit are considered a higher risk.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Easy-X]

One week later and Superbike still have the GT listed. The Old Fella has volunteered and will attempt to buy it. I've briefed him on the lines I was fed so whoever rings him on Monday to cancel will get the telephonic equivalent of an attack dog
____________________
Royal Enfield Continental GT 535, Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[A100man]

I showed some interest in the Shiver GT they have there in MK - they badgered me for a while buy I said it was too much money for the shabby condition so they said - 'make us an offer!'

I didn't because I also noted the oil level was on the low marker.. and I didn't trust its former life.
____________________
Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600

[Easy-X]

The old fella attempted to buy the GT (it was still listed) but once it was added to the cart it turned out to be sold already

Shenanigans.
____________________
Royal Enfield Continental GT 535, Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[that_impulse_guy]

may I?
costs around £1k , maybe less, if you're not too bothered about paintwork being excellent...and about £1700 if you're looking for "near-pristine"

passes ULEZ test (one-off £170 payment)
135-ish bhp..(depending who you ask), will embarrass lots of normal things easily.

my insurance on it in London, with a nearly new license...£90/yr comprehensive. (it is a classic policy, so NCD doesnt apply/accrue)

Suzuki RF900
it IS around 212kg I think...I'm 5foot7...maybe 5foot8 in boots...no worries.

many parts shared with bandit 1200 so the only bits getting difficult to find are fairing pieces.

(P.S. all my free advice comes with 100% money-back guarantee if you're not happy)
____________________
Gone: Yamaha DT50lc, Suzuki DR500, Suzuki A100, Kawasaki z250ltd, RD350YPVS, Suzuki DR Big, Kawasaki AR125, Kawasaki KMX200, Suzuki GS1000S, Katana 1100, GS550M, Suzuki RGV250
Now: Suzuki GSX400X, Suzuki RF900R, NS400R

[Easy-X]

Back to revisit this topic. Here's an example bike:

https://geoff-media.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/AK68EMF/production/blemishImages/img_1771.jpg

https://superbikefactory.co.uk/2018-royal-enfield-bullet-black-with-10669-miles/

Ticks the boxes of cheap to insure, old fashioned looking to put off the scrotes, ULEZ compliant and more than enough power for the sub-50mph roads and hills round my way.

The main thing I'm weighing up is paying ~£500 over the odds to Superbike Factory for some small guarantee the bike is what they say it is and being able to just whack it on a credit card. I can find a few similar examples for £2,300~2,500 locally but that's cash only
____________________
Royal Enfield Continental GT 535, Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[to v or not to v]

why the 500 and not the newer 350 classic?
or even the Meteor, they can be picked up really cheap. about £3k brand new.
____________________
current bike Yamaha Thunderace.
Moto Guzzi V7.

[Easy-X]

[to v or not to v]

ive looked into the 500 Classic as i was very tempted to buy one. i think its about the nicest looking/sounding bike around for sensible money.

the opinion of people who have owned both generally seems to be that 350 is the better bike.
apparently the 500 above speeds that the 350 is capable of is so unpleasant that it has caused some people medical issues

the equivalent 350 Meteor can be had for around a grand cheaper than the classic 350. thats a big saving for what is essentially the same bike.
____________________
current bike Yamaha Thunderace.
Moto Guzzi V7.

[Easy-X]

For character, probably the older carb'd versions would be the most fun. Not sure whether I could cope with the brake and shifter swapped to old-skool British but there were a few years with conventional/jap orientation before they switched to EFI.

AFAIK the vibration thing varies bike to bike but I've seen Hitchcocks sell some rebalancing plate and alternative engine mounts for starters. I think we've all been spoilt by ultra-smooth, jap inline 2s and 4s. The old Triumph I've been working on "shakes like a dog trying to pass a peach seed"
____________________
Royal Enfield Continental GT 535, Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[to v or not to v]

my Guzzi shakes and rumbles and i love it. its not an uncomfortable feeling, its more like the engine is speaking to you.
all my Jap bikes on the other hand(which have all been from the last century), have had vibrations through the handlebars which become unpleasant after a while.
____________________
current bike Yamaha Thunderace.
Moto Guzzi V7.

[Easy-X]

Well that was fruitful. The bike's a bit tatty but sounds solid enough. Euro 3 spec so very simple ECU and electrics. Turns out the guy works for... Royal Enfield All the stuff he's done is subtle fixes you'd do if in-the-know but outwardly it looks almost bone-stock.

Just waiting on him to sort a fresh MoT, might be riding about on it next week.
____________________
Royal Enfield Continental GT 535, Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Easy-X]

I bought this:

https://i.imgur.com/Ewo6bCB.jpeg

Apologies for the poor picture, only thought about it once I'd parked it up.

Riding it is certainly a... visceral experience.

Handling: very good, much better than the Husky which makes me wonder if the latter could be improved. Brakes are adequate, back's a bit wooden maybe. Steered right at some potholes, it didn't mind.

Vibration: cruising along you just get some vibration through the pegs, handlebars no worse than the Husky but the vibes can get out of hand in two ways. Higher frequencies as you approach redline so a shift light is superfluous Low frequencies at random combinations of rpms, gear and speed. It's five grand up which writes off the bike for sustained periods. I'm not going to be doing NSL for hours on this thing so not a problem.

Sound: probably the best you can get for a single

Seat: the single "café racer" seat seems perfectly adequate and I'm not itching to rebuild it like I did with the Husky. The previous owner was kind enough to also include a double seat so I might re-upholster that.

Ergonomics: the faux clip-ons are raised up, especially compared to the Vitpilen's so actually not too bad around town. Pegs are set back, a position I prefer. I can get both feet down almost flat, not much different to the Husky, but somehow easier to jump on and off though.

Overall: lots of fun, a real analogue experience compared to modern bikes. World's worst bike for long runs.
____________________
Royal Enfield Continental GT 535, Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[A100man]

[A100man]

..saying that - I get the appeal.
____________________
Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600

[Easy-X]

Should be named the Incontinent Gigantic Tremor, quite capable of shaking the piss out of you.

I can put the old Bullets in better perspective now: all the vibes, none of the handling. It'd take a particular kind of masochist to take one on
____________________
Royal Enfield Continental GT 535, Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[A100man]

Do you still have to buy a new set of (Whitworth?) spanners for these things?
____________________
Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600