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Another Police woman shot

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Mister James
I want to believe!



Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: 03:04 - 15 Feb 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
COLINWALL wrote:

all i know is what i hear from my mate who is a copper, and he tells me that a stab vest stops knives but dont stop bullets, which is why she is in hospital


I repeat my last, they are designed to be effective against both, although obviously not as effective against bullets as a military spec combat vest.

BBC News wrote:

Pc Bown was wearing the standard issue equipment used by Nottinghamshire Police which is stab proof that has a level of protection against bullets.


As it happens, she was shot underneath it - so she could have been wearing a diamond-encrusted kevlar and it wouldn't have helped her.

Quote:

even 16 stone rugby players are not supposed to tackle armed men if they can help it
very brave of her maybe, but probably not something an experienced officer would have done


The BBC story has changed about 3 times since I read it first. The first draft said that she challenged him, upon which he drew a firearm and shot her.

He drew it - ie. it was not on display when she approached him.


Quote:

im sure the crim warned her to back off before shooting, she must have kept coming


I can't believe I'm reading this.

You are sure? Based on what? Were you there? Where are you getting your information from? How many arrests have you made? How many years on the street do you have?

She may only have had 2 years in the force - I'm guessing it's 2 years more than you.

Quote:

the fact is 2 women probationers have ended up getting shot, you might think this is pure coincidence, I dont.


It doesn't look like you are doing much thinking at all.

I think the only coincidental facts of any interest are the following:

    Huge proportions of the police force are probationers. As they have no specialist training, they are all going to be on the streets, while more experienced officers are tasked to specialist branches. As such, the chances of them being involved in a incident like this is far higher than the make-up of the force would suggest.


    Record numbers of women are joining up - and despite Siggi's claims, criminals are quite happy to push women around and hurt them. As the previous shooting case appears to have been carried out by men from cultures traditionally dismissive of women, women could actually be more likely to be shot at just for being women!


I suggest you wait for a bit more solid information before sharing your considered wisdom with us.
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colin1
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Joined: 17 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: 03:09 - 15 Feb 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
im not doing an essay, i can have opinions without being able to substantiate them

if i want to specualte, i will
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Mister James
I want to believe!



Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: 05:45 - 15 Feb 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
COLINWALL wrote:
im not doing an essay,


Quite right - you are talking crap.

Quote:

i can have opinions without being able to substantiate them

if i want to specualte, i will


Of course you can - however, you'll have to accept the fact that others may take offence at the tripe you've posted, and react accordingly.

You don't know anything about the incident, and yet you use it to launch an attack on female probationers in general, including the one lying in hospital because she did what everyone is always bleating for the police to do, and responded to a burglary report.
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Wooly R6
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Joined: 19 May 2005
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PostPosted: 14:38 - 15 Feb 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
the fact of the matter is

when any copper shoots someone there is a massive investigation and money goes down the pan, and the family of the twat that was shot dead gets loads of compensation!!!!!

they should shoot to kill and that should be the end of it!!!!

"SERVE THE FUCKERS RIGHT" Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
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nrml76
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 05 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 17:37 - 15 Feb 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wooly R6 wrote:
the fact of the matter is

when any copper shoots someone there is a massive investigation and money goes down the pan, and the family of the twat that was shot dead gets loads of compensation!!!!!

they should shoot to kill and that should be the end of it!!!!

"SERVE THE FUCKERS RIGHT" Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad


And if that twat happend to be your brother or friend, who just happend to look suspicious in the eyes of the police would you still be saying "SERVE THE FUCKERS RIGHT" Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad?
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colin1
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Joined: 17 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: 18:05 - 15 Feb 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
so that brazilian guy was a twat for running from men waving guns at him, and the guy with a table leg was a twat as it could have been a shotgun ?

everyone makes mistakes including the police, that doesnt make their victims twats
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 18:07 - 15 Feb 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi

Nobody with 2 brain cells to rub together is going to wander around breaking into houses while carrying a gun visably. One very quick way to get detained (if they are lucky) long before they find a house to do.

Difficult to know what happened. Given where she was shot it seems likely that either she was physically tackling him at the time, or he really knew what he was doing, or he was incompetant and pulled the trigger while drawing the gun. Suspect the first is more likely, although the last would be better because then he is more likely to shoot himself.

Good luck to her.

Mister James wrote:
[list]Huge proportions of the police force are probationers. As they have no specialist training, they are all going to be on the streets, while more experienced officers are tasked to specialist branches.


R6Jonny can probably answer this. Roughly what percentage of those on the street are probationers? Has that figure changed much? Seem to have read somewhere with one more senior constable saying that most of his shift were probationers and that they did not have the fully qualified manpower to mentor them as they should. Also remember reading someone saying (possibly on here) that a lot join the police for a few years as it looks good on their CV in later life.

All the best

Keith
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R6jonny
Nearly there...



Joined: 28 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 18:12 - 15 Feb 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
Hi

Nobody with 2 brain cells to rub together is going to wander around breaking into houses while carrying a gun visably. One very quick way to get detained (if they are lucky) long before they find a house to do.

Difficult to know what happened. Given where she was shot it seems likely that either she was physically tackling him at the time, or he really knew what he was doing, or he was incompetant and pulled the trigger while drawing the gun. Suspect the first is more likely, although the last would be better because then he is more likely to shoot himself.

Good luck to her.

Mister James wrote:
[list]Huge proportions of the police force are probationers. As they have no specialist training, they are all going to be on the streets, while more experienced officers are tasked to specialist branches.


R6Jonny can probably answer this. Roughly what percentage of those on the street are probationers? Has that figure changed much? Seem to have read somewhere with one more senior constable saying that most of his shift were probationers and that they did not have the fully qualified manpower to mentor them as they should. Also remember reading someone saying (possibly on here) that a lot join the police for a few years as it looks good on their CV in later life.

All the best

Keith


Keith , Mister James isnt far off at all about the numbers of probationers there...

At least half my team is probationers.

I wouldnt say that this contributed to her getting shot though. From what ive read id have done things the same way in that situation

Just bad luck
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"simply because she is a female and is thus her actions largely make no sense whatsoever by default"
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colin1
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Joined: 17 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 15 Feb 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
All bobbies start on the beat but many then move on to other things within the force, that is why there is a disproprtionate number of probationers on patrol or response duties. Higher than in the force as a whole.
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R6jonny
Nearly there...



Joined: 28 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 18:19 - 15 Feb 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
COLINWALL wrote:
All bobbies start on the beat .....




Sorry, not right about that either ....
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Mister James
I want to believe!



Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: 18:20 - 15 Feb 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Telegraph (who don't change their stories during the day like the BBC) wrote:

Pc Bown, who was nearing the end of her two years' probation, went to a five-bedroom Edwardian semi in Lenton Boulevard with an experienced male colleague shortly before midnight on Monday.

They came across a suspect in a nearby street and he fled after being challenged. After a short chase he produced a handgun, turned and fired at Pc Bown. Witnesses said that one or two shots were fired.

Pc Bown was driven to the Queen's Medical Centre where she was put under guard in intensive care.


From that it'd seem he fired down the street at them as they pursued him.
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 18:23 - 15 Feb 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi

Cheers Jonny. Not meaning that she would have done anything wrong, more just thinking that her level of experience in such a situation was not unusual. From your comment it would seem that someone with 2 years experience is likely to be working without being accompanied by a more experienced mentor most of the time.

Colin, they are probationers for 2 years normally after which if they want to and are acceptable they can apply for other roles. The majority are going to stay on the street. Even if only a quarter stay on the street, with 2 years of a 25 year (or so) length of service as a probationer they should still be around 1/3 of the numbers tops. Unless a large number leave well before they get anywhere near a full pension.

All the best

Keith
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R6jonny
Nearly there...



Joined: 28 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 18:32 - 15 Feb 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
Hi

Not meaning that she would have done anything wrong, ....



A point directed at some of the other posts in the thread rather than part of the answer to your question, sorry that was a bit unclear

kickstart wrote:
Colin, they are probationers for 2 years normally after which if they want to and are acceptable they can apply for other roles.


Not all probationers start out on the street anymore due to joining other units straight from training school. At least some in the Met anyway ....
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 15 Feb 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
R6jonny wrote:
Not all probationers start out on the street anymore due to joining other units straight from training school. At least some in the Met anyway ....


Interesting, which would suggest a lower number of probationers on the street (and possibly a real recruitment problem).

All the best

Keith
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R6jonny
Nearly there...



Joined: 28 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 19:13 - 15 Feb 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
R6jonny wrote:
Not all probationers start out on the street anymore due to joining other units straight from training school. At least some in the Met anyway ....


Interesting, which would suggest a lower number of probationers on the street (and possibly a real recruitment problem).

All the best

Keith
.


Possibly, Wink
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