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jackw72
World Chat Champion



Joined: 18 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 02 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
I took it as implied. Cars have to obey red lights, that's the law. If you think cyclists shouldn't follow the same laws then it follows they shouldn't obey red lights. That's the logical progression of your argument. It follows that if not following same rules as cars then cyclists also should not observe stop signs, give way, pedestrian crossings, etc. etc. etc.

Perhaps you meant cyclist should be exempt from some of the laws. Which they are. Cyclists can have flashing white and red lights fitted to their vehicle*. Cars cannot.

Please feel free to mention it to your therapist at your next session Wink Very Happy

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* Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations (RVLR) 1989
Highway code rules for cyclists - rule 60


My therapist is useless as you can tell!

I think you know what I mean, though your pedantic attempt to make a mockery of my opinions have started a fun meaningless argument. Mr. Green Karma
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JonB
Afraid of Mileage



Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Karma :
PostPosted: 14:41 - 02 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
map wrote:
JonB wrote:
map, have you ever crossed a pedestrian crossing when the red man is showing, or started when the green man was flashing?

Would that get me 3 points on my licence and £100 fine? (see PC10 endorsement)

That is not the point I am making. The fact you have swerved that so obviously tells me your arguments don't stack up.

Crossing a pedestrian crossing under the scenario I posted above contravenes the Highway Code. Just because you cannot get points on your licence does not in any way reduce the severity of the offence.

Why would you cross a pedestrian crossing if it was on a red man? Because you can hear well and can see the state of traffic to make a sensible decision to cross. Legality aside a cyclist very much has the same faculties available when at a quiet red light crossing, especially if the signals have not recognised the presence of the bicycle.
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map
Mr Calendar



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Karma :
PostPosted: 14:49 - 02 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
JonB wrote:
...Crossing a pedestrian crossing under the scenario I posted above contravenes the Highway Code. Just because you cannot get points on your licence does not in any way reduce the severity of the offence.....

Highway Code, unless otherwise stated with the words MUST, is only best advice*. So as you state I can take that advice under advisement as it were and make decisions accordingly based on the circumstances. However, if it was the law mine and your actions might be different.

The argument I was making was about cars and cyclists following the same law. Using common sense is a different bag of kittens Very Happy

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* Highway Code - rules for pedestrians
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :
PostPosted: 15:02 - 02 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
map wrote:

As an example the point I was trying making was something like...
Car driver at or approaching junction/red light/roundabout/whatever thinks I can go now as I have right of way and can't see any other vehicles oh dear where did that cyclist come from?!

Cyclist version would be I can sail straight across this junction/red light/roundabout/whatever or just bump down off the pavement because jackw72 says it's my rules, oh! why did that car just hit me?!

Green does not mean 'go'.
Sparks on here got caught out with that. He went on green and a Porsche ploughed into him.
The Porsche had priority because he was on the major road.

"Go, if it is safe to do so."

In both your cases the road users were not showing an appropriate level of observation.

The rules we have were put there as an approximation to try and distil complex situations into an easily enforceable list.
Personally, I only care about people following specific words or not - but that they follow the spirit of the rules.
So if they're going to jump a red light, do it when they've made good observations and ensured no one's in danger.

Much better than going through a green light and stopping in the hatched markings holding other traffic up, something a lot of people seem to think is ok.

While we're on the highway code.
https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/static/hc/hc_rule_163_give_vulnerable_road_users_at_least_as_much_space_as_you_would_a_car.jpg
Direct from the .gov website.
Like people actually do that!
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 00:40 - 03 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Watching the 'R6 crash' video going around on youtube and I realised...
I've had more 'issues' with pedestrians 'jumping reds' than cyclists.
Was always gettings all-sorts late for work trying to make a dash at the last second - fine for the Micra that's just going to get stuck in traffic, but irksome when on a bike that can accelerate and filter - even going on green.
Most would break in to a run with a few blips of the loud exhaust, did have one that was less impressed and gave me the finger. Had I not had a numberplate, things might have gone differently.

I say force all pedestrians to have numberplates too, to equal things.
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JonB
Afraid of Mileage



Joined: 03 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: 07:28 - 03 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
G, I think you have a point though. I think characteristically, cyclists are closer in the spectrum to pedestrians than they are to car users.

Also, very close to motorcyclists in the sense that I feel like my motorcycle training gave me good habits whilst on the pushbike in terms of blind spot checks etc.

Crucially IMO cyclists can hear what is going on around them as well as see. In a car and on a motorbike I cannot do that, which is why visual signs i.e traffic lights are far more relevant.

You can't eat whilst driving - yet people do
You are not meant to speed - yet people do
You are not allowed to use mobile phones whilst driving - yet people do
You are meant to indicate whenever you want to turn into a side road - yet people don't

There are lots of motoring laws that are flouted by motorists as much as they are by cyclists which goes to prove my point that this discussion is set up in the wrong way in that the media and everyone else see this as a war of the cyclists against the motorists, where actually it should be competent road users Vs incompetent road users.
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carlosthejack...
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Karma :
PostPosted: 23:31 - 14 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:

Personally, I only care about people following specific words or not - but that they follow the spirit of the rules.
So if they're going to jump a red light, do it when they've made good observations and ensured no one's in danger.


This.
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Baffler186
World Chat Champion



Joined: 31 May 2013
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PostPosted: 15:40 - 03 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
No I don't, and would never consider it. What's the point? Most cyclists I see just jump the red and end up waiting 2 inches from moving traffic. I'm not trying to say that I've never broken any road laws, but I certainly don't when I'm on a push bike and at my most vulnerable.
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carlosthejack...
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 14:33 - 05 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I will continue to run reds where I believe it's safe to do so and when I believe it's beneficial for me to do so to prevent me getting squashed flat deaded by a cager. https://www.rudi.net/node/16395
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Responsibility. It's a difficult reality for some. I'm running the 2014 Sheffield Half Marathon on behalf of Bluebell Wood Childrens Hospice. Please sponsor me, even if it's just a quid.
DonnyBrago: "I think you may be confusing rain and napalm..." Paulington: "It's not what you ride, it's how you ride it."
Current rides: '05 VFR800 VTEC, '57 Mondeo 1.8 TDCi #58LEGEND
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 11 years, 174 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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