Blame if someone is kiled/injured watching at a bike meet?

[Ste]

[Kickstart]

[Shaun]

[tater]

kickstart and ste have made some good points, we seem to be in a world that everyone else has to look after your safety!!, people seem to suffer from lack of common sense, ive stood on that corner first time i went up there and quickly changed were i stud as its obivous what will happen if ANY vehicle looses control on that corner.

I have also had my only accident up there when i use to ride on the road i was coming the opposite way upto the island at 60mph braked to slow down front wheel instantly locked and bike dropped luckly i stayed on my side of the road and the bike just went down the curb, i take it as it must of been diesel with how the bike just went down straight away, so you have to take care were ever you are as something could happen yes the guy was stupid and ended up causing a death, but people need to understand near any road or display there is danger

[dainesefreak]

I am not going to comment either way really as I know of the rider from another forum/local group.

Bassetts Pole is local to me, I know the area and meet very well like some others here who have commented. I would just like to point out some things about the meet.

Bassetts Pole is actually a fairly large island on the A38 which is an NSL dual carriageway. There is a pub and McDonalds on a site situated just off the island, it's not a residential area.

The McDonalds used to be a pub/restaurant where a group/club of bikers used to meet regularly. They used to have flyers up on the wall as to how much money these bikers had raised for childrens charities. I believe the meet as it is now, developed from this and from the heavy policing of the Waterman pub in Warwick.

Tuesday night is "Pole night".

Even lads I work with who don't ride and have never ridden know about the meet at the Pole and know how heavy with bikes the area is on a Tuesday night.

99.9% of the country would have to make an effort to get there on or in some form of powered transport.

In my opinion you would not want to be there on a Tuesday night if you weren't a biker or interested in the meet. Basically I wouldn't go to the pub for a meal that night, in fact as a biker I can't be bothered trying to get in and out most of the time.

The front of the pub and garden are the opposite side to the road/island.

The McDonalds is even further back from the road on the opposite side of a car park.

Regulars perform the same stunts there at the same place every week.

The is very minimal police presence, in fact the area borders two counties and policing the area is a bit of a moot point.

Perhaps some of this does seem slightly biased reading back through it.

I will say that I don't agree with stunting on public roads, but it all comes down to what you percieve to be stunting and the responsiblility you take for you own actions on both sides of the incident.

[Grubby]

This is an unfortunate incident BUTit's nothing new.
The Lord Derby had an incident just like this a couple of years ago, no one was killed but there was a serious injury as I recall, also people fall off outside the Ace on a regular basis, check out Bendy's video for evidence of this!
People will always go & stand right on the road when there are others stunting, it's human nature to want the best view & sometimes people go too far, get too close & accidents do happen.
I recall going to an early Bulldog bash & there were guys doing wheelies & where they were doing them was just lines of people, no barriers at all just two rows of humanity about 5 feet apart. You could touch the guys wheelying past you were stood that close to them. If someone had been injured, I'd have said that it was mainly their fault for standing in the line of fire in the first place.
Now I don't know where this lady was standing, BUT what was she doing there in the first place......that's right, she was there to watch people do illegal things on motorcycles & in that respect she cannot be villified as she is partly the reason why the motorcyclist was getting his knee down in the first place....for her aswell as his adrenaline fix.
I'm sorry if I've offended anyone with what I've written but I believe that if you think that people should be fined & banned for riding like twats, then don't go & watch them do so as it only encourages them to ride even harder & in this case beyond their limits. End of

[TheBoyChris]

I'm sorry but peer pressure, cheering and all the rest of it is no excuse. When you step up to please the crowd at an unofficial bike meet, and then you proceed to knowingly break the law then you are at fault.

Why do you think we have laws like this in the first place? He was getting his knee down and (by all accounts) performing manouvers that should have been kept for the racetrack. Had the police been there they would have stopped him immediately. How can you say someone "should have known better"?

She was on the pavement. He was on the road. He crossed into her area and as a result she died. He was performing manouvers that carry higher risks than the law dictates is acceptable on public roads. He lost control and killed someone.

Sorry, but what the hell else should "death by dangerous driving" mean?
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Last bike - 2004 CBR 125 - Gone but not forgotten
Scottish Piper on a Wednesday people, you know it makes sense.

[Bendy]

I don't think anyone's arguing that he shouldn't be prosecuted in the manner that he is, merely debating the that morally, she was not entirely innocent.

If you go to watch racing, your ticket warns you that motorsport is dangerous and you are at risk as a spectator. You're brought up to know that the pavement is not a completely safe place to be when there are fast moving vehicles mere feet away. Unless she was spectacularly stupid, she knew there was a risk in standing there. Her choice to take the risk.

Just like I took a risk standing filming people doing stunts at the Ace Cafe - I could have walked away and stood back somewhere safer but I didn't. My choice.

Legally she is blame free. Morally, she is not.

[zaknafien]

Totally agree with bendy.
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02 Firestorm.

[Big Pete]

why is getting your knee down considered such a hienous crime? given that on a modern sportsbike you can grind a slider with the bike about 15 degrees off the vertical, its not exactly pushing the boundaries is it? If the guy had just rolled off the edge of his tyres and lost it (no knee down) would that have been seen as just an unfortunate accident?
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GarageOfPower.co.uk

[NickD]

Either getting you knee down, or getting anywhere near the edge of a tyre in a built up area is asking for trouble.
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I was only doing what it said on my licence officer....
Tear along the dotted line!

[Jimmy]

I would say:

If rider was riding safe and viewer was on the pavement etc = nobody's fault

If rider was riding safe and viewer was on the road etc = viewers fault

If rider was riding dangerously and viewer was on the pavement etc = riders fault

If rider was riding dangerously and viewer was on the road etc = split fault

Obviously in reality it's never as clean cut.
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I've confused my intentions with my abilities

[Big Pete]

[tgabber]

If any moral blame at all is going to be attached to the woman, then that same amount of blame has to be attached equally to every other spectator and participant who didn't acknowledge that what was going on was stupidly dangerous.

I do think that some people just seem oblivious to high risk until something tragic like this happens. I will always support freedom of choice and action as long as it is an informed choice. Go stunt and watch stunts if you want. But do it in the full knowledge of what can happen if things go wrong.
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"It's all about dislocating expectation"
Kawasaki KMX125 -> Aprilia RS125 -> Kawasaki ZZR600

[NickD]

And the likelyhood that this guy was 'scraping a slider at 20 mph' to reduce lean angle/ maximise grip is......?
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I was only doing what it said on my licence officer....
Tear along the dotted line!

[Big Pete]

I`m not really bothered about this particular instance, the tone of many of the posts has been that touching your knee down is akin to child molesting, and I was trying to discover why, as it doesnt mean that high speeds or any particularly risky maneuvers are involved, and it can be benificial if you have inadvertantly overcooked it into a bend.
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Trust me, I`m an engineer
GarageOfPower.co.uk

[NickD]

My mistake. my comments were in relation to this particular incedent.
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I was only doing what it said on my licence officer....
Tear along the dotted line!

[Shade_BW]

Ste, I'm having a hard time not marking all your posts as redundant, as you are saying the same bloody thing over and over again.

I've yet to start on page two, so temptation may grow too much.

Shade
Bored now.
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[Kickstart]

[McJamweasel]

[Born2bVile]

[Kickstart]

Hi

My view is that both were factors. If the rider or the spectators had not "participated" then the accident would not have happened.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Ste]

[Shade_BW]