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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:32 - 13 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Irezumi wrote:
Regardless of what you chose to do hope your health improves. Thumbs Up


Thank you for the sentiment Irezumi.
But the reasons I don't get everything looked at are very complex and personal, and I don't wish to go fully into them in public.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 20:39 - 13 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Today, nothing is hurting. I'm also being very careful to not do anything which makes the slipped disc squeeze the jam out of the doughnut yet again. That's been a recurring theme for a couple of years now.

Finally having my first appointment to start doing something about it later this month.

It does seem that slipped discs are quite common on this thread, I wonder if it has anything to do with most of us having previously been teenagers than managed to crash bikes (repeatedly) whilst going quite fast.

Last time I re-slipped the disc I was leaning at a slight angle to put a cup of tea down. 20 years ago I could hit the road at 50 and pick the bike up afterwards.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 21:05 - 13 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Robby wrote:


It does seem that slipped discs are quite common on this thread, I wonder if it has anything to do with most of us having previously been teenagers than managed to crash bikes (repeatedly) whilst going quite fast.


My back injury was sustained whilst riding a bike quite slowly Laughing
And of all the injuries I have sustained over the years, it has proved to be the most debilitating of them all, and that's saying something considering the other injuries I've had Sad
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M.C
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PostPosted: 00:40 - 14 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Robby wrote:
Finally having my first appointment to start doing something about it later this month.

Physio?

Quote:
It does seem that slipped discs are quite common on this thread, I wonder if it has anything to do with most of us having previously been teenagers than managed to crash bikes (repeatedly) whilst going quite fast.

Yep although not that fast, just violent; dead stop, airborne, and then landing quite some distance away on my arse Laughing

Considering landing square on my nuts it felt like I ripped my dick off, yet the pain from my back took over, I'm assuming I did it then Thinking

Quote:
Last time I re-slipped the disc I was leaning at a slight angle to put a cup of tea down. 20 years ago I could hit the road at 50 and pick the bike up afterwards.

Mine completely went once when sitting in a chair doing nothing Neutral It also 'went' 3 times last winter so seems to be getting worse.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 02:01 - 14 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Robby wrote:
Today, nothing is hurting. I'm also being very careful to not do anything which makes the slipped disc squeeze the jam out of the doughnut yet again. That's been a recurring theme for a couple of years now.

Finally having my first appointment to start doing something about it later this month.

It does seem that slipped discs are quite common on this thread, I wonder if it has anything to do with most of us having previously been teenagers than managed to crash bikes (repeatedly) whilst going quite fast.

Last time I re-slipped the disc I was leaning at a slight angle to put a cup of tea down. 20 years ago I could hit the road at 50 and pick the bike up afterwards.


Not mine, it happened I took a 60' lead fall while climbing in the Lakes in my late teens.

My current run of grief seems to be toes. Last week a three foot piece of wood landed on my big toe, fully expected it to turn the nail black but instead it's left a black line right up the middle of the nail and no feeling in the whole toe.
And just now I've managed to separate the nail from the little toe on the same foot, not in the same league as a herniated disc but it's probably going to be fun squeezing into work boots on Monday. Reckon I'll have to patch it up when it stops bleeding, otherwise it's going to catch on everything. Laughing
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Irezumi
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PostPosted: 08:53 - 14 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Robby wrote:
Today, nothing is hurting. I'm also being very careful to not do anything which makes the slipped disc squeeze the jam out of the doughnut yet again. That's been a recurring theme for a couple of years now.

Sorry to jump on this but this is a pet bug-bear and I get fed up having to undo some old consultants or GP's archaic bullshit explanations about inter vertebral discs all the time when I get a refferral.

First, please do not think of discs like jam doughnuts. If you ever get a chance with a rabbit or similar have a look at how tough they are. They're really fucking solid. Running, and even walking, have been shown to improve disc composition and mean that multiple times bodyweight is placed on the spine with each step, it's what it's evolved to do. Your spine and all it's constituent parts are very tough.

Second, 'slipped discs' is an awful term. They may protrude/bulge slightly, this can happen for multiple reasons, we are also talking millimetres and fraction's of millimetres in the majority of cases. It is often not that bad (this is obviously a general rule and every case is different so please do et checked out). Imaging (MRI etc.) studies have shown that people can having protruding/bulging discs and have no pain or effect on daily life whatsoever.

Third, even if you do have disc problems then keeping active is important as a general rule, though there are exceptions. It has been shown that exercise (strengthening exercises) can resolve a 'slipped disc' within a few months. Once you have a 'slipped disc' it doesn't mean it's going to stay that way, it is reversible without surgery, again case by case basis.

Would like to point out this isn't aimed at Robby but just as a general message. This is also very general advice and everyone and case is different so do not take this as a medical advice for your particular back injury. Thumbs Up
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 09:54 - 14 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Irezumi wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
Tbh, although I might have a little whinge about aches and pains on occasion, I don't like to go into great detail, since all mine were brought on by my own actions - no one to blame but myself. This is a big part of the reason I'm not registered with a GP anymore - and I sort of feel I've had more than my fair share from the NHS already. Anyone else in that kind of situation/feel that way?

Regardless of if they were self inflicted or not it's better to try and get any issues addressed sooner rather than later. Will mean less of an issue at a later date, for yourself and therefore the healthcare/social care system in your later years.

I work for the NHS (clinical role seeing patients), less time is needed (as a general rule) if dealt with sooner rather than later. If you're going to pay for healthcare/elderly care in later life personally then go for it. Clinicians would rather treat you now than when it's more complicated and you are less able though.

Regardless of what you chose to do hope your health improves. Thumbs Up


Lol. Even cancer won't get you seen in time in most parts of the country. NI paid for years so there's somebody employed to say "computer says nooo".

The NHS is fucked. Calling an ambulance became the go-to for some years to get the treatment you should have been getting via GP referral but even that's down the shitter now. If you think you've got something serious that needs looking at go have a bike/car wreck and hope you can manipulate them into having a look at your dodgy ticker or strange lump while they're setting your broken bones. After you've been laying in the road in agony for a few hours first of course.

Oh, forgot to mention dentists. There's a whole bunch of scum-sucking cunts in govt that need serious prison sentences for what's gone wrong there. People pulling their own teeth out with pliers. In the UK, supposedly a 1st-world country. It barely rates as 2nd-world now.

But PM has a nice new paint-job on the official air-jolly Boeing. Etc.
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Irezumi
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PostPosted: 10:41 - 14 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hetzer wrote:
The NHS is fucked. Calling an ambulance became the go-to for some years to get the treatment you should have been getting via GP referral but even that's down the shitter now. If you think you've got something serious that needs looking at go have a bike/car wreck and hope you can manipulate them into having a look at your dodgy ticker or strange lump while they're setting your broken bones. After you've been laying in the road in agony for a few hours first of course.

Oh, forgot to mention dentists. There's a whole bunch of scum-sucking cunts in govt that need serious prison sentences for what's gone wrong there. People pulling their own teeth out with pliers. In the UK, supposedly a 1st-world country. It barely rates as 2nd-world now.

But PM has a nice new paint-job on the official air-jolly Boeing. Etc.

Trust me, most people working within the NHS are trying to do their best and feel the same. To be more precise the NHS has beenfucked by successive governments, agree that heads need to role, possibly literally.

Interestingly the dentist situation is a very clear warning sign of why the NHS should be kept and privatisation is a bad idea.

Dentist's are and always have been a kind of private system essentially, this also applies to GP's, contractors to the NHS essentially. The pay that is being offered by the government to dentist's for NHS appointments is well below what get's paid for private appointments, so the dentists just drop the NHS work or do as little as possible. This is arguably greed from the dentists, however I know someone who loses dental assistants constantly (which requires a 2 year diploma still I think) to supermarkets and delivery jobs because they get paid so little and can make more elsewhere with less responsibility. This person works for a major private healthcare provider, they are making significant profits so as with water and energy at the moment privatisation doesn't result in better care unless you can afford it, the price will only go up if that's the only option - see America.

There is a shortage of Dr's and in particular GP's, there were also approx 800 Dr's from the last graduation who could not get a job in the NHS as the government were not funding places. Please see multiple health secretaries for that forward thinking.

The biggest issue I see now is that there is a lack of Nursing staff, anecdotally I speak to a lot less European nurses and HCA's now than I used to on wards, and there is nowhere for patients to go as we have lack of care facilities and social services to help deal with discharge. There are lots of people out there who don't have savings, no family to care for them etc.

All this combined is also leading to many people leaving the NHS, often abroad (admittedly I am looking to do this), or changing careers altogether which obviously exacerbates the situation.

Anyway, as always I have digressed.

For anyone reading this if you have an issue with pain which is muscle or skeletal related have a look online at your local services and see if you can do self referral to physiotherapy. This is often the case but very poorly advertised, can often save you a lot of time of getting you to see who is needed. Obviously dependent on your particular problem and local services. Thumbs Up
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 09:55 - 15 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hetzer wrote:
Lol. Even cancer won't get you seen in time in most parts of the country. NI paid for years so there's somebody employed to say "computer says nooo".

The NHS is fucked. Calling an ambulance became the go-to for some years to get the treatment you should have been getting via GP referral but even that's down the shitter now. If you think you've got something serious that needs looking at go have a bike/car wreck and hope you can manipulate them into having a look at your dodgy ticker or strange lump while they're setting your broken bones. After you've been laying in the road in agony for a few hours first of course.

Oh, forgot to mention dentists. There's a whole bunch of scum-sucking cunts in govt that need serious prison sentences for what's gone wrong there. People pulling their own teeth out with pliers. In the UK, supposedly a 1st-world country. It barely rates as 2nd-world now.

But PM has a nice new paint-job on the official air-jolly Boeing. Etc.


I had a transient ischaemic attach on Monday around lunchtime, went to A&E myself, was triaged within 10 minutes. First nurse saw me another 10 mins later. Took bloods and done observations then. Doctor came to see me within the next half hour. After seeing her and doing a load of arm and eye tests, she said she didn't think it was a serious attack but they were going to test me anyway. It took about 15 minutes before another nurse came and done more observations as they wanted to closely monitor by blood pressure and she done an ECG. Literally at the ECG finished the first doctor came back and reviewed the ECG results there and then. She took them away and told me they were waiting on blood test results for the Consultant to look at. She came back about 45 minutes later and told me the Consultant didn't think it was a serious attack and that the clot that caused it has already passed but ordered a CT scan for surety. They took me through for a CT scan there and then. Afterwards I was taken back to the A&E room I had.

I waited there for a good hour and a half before the Doctor came back and told me the Consultant had reviewed everything and the CT scan showed no clots but they were still concerned about my blood pressure so I had to wait and have another set of observations. Waited another hour for the nurse and Doctor to come back together, they took some observations and told me I was free to go but were referring me back to my GP for follow-up.

The next day my GP called and asked me to come in for an emergency appointment. He took some observations there too and said he was referring me to a neurologist, I told him I am private and he gave me a referral letter then and there.

I am actually really happy with the NHS service that I got on this occasion. That's not to say they ain't fucked or complete shite elsewhere but I was happy with the service I got on the day and the follow-up. Just wanted to share my one small anecdote.

Also regarding 1st, 2nd and 3rd world these terms actually never had anything to do with economy or quality of life. 1st world was NATO alignment, 2nd world was Soviet bloc alignment and 3rd world was everyone else.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 10:02 - 15 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Irezumi wrote:
I know someone who loses dental assistants constantly (which requires a 2 year diploma still I think) to supermarkets and delivery jobs because they get paid so little and can make more elsewhere with less responsibility.


I actually agree with the vast majority of the points you raised, but a 2 year diploma is basically and HND level qualification which isn't much of a deal at all. It's less than half of what's required for an Honours Degree and almost a third of what's required for a Masters Degree.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 16:29 - 15 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Useful information there Reuben, ta.

Session coming up is the initial consult with a physio. I had a similar one when I first had trouble a couple of years ago, and I've been keeping active and keeping up with the stretches since. It just repeatedly flares up.

So two years of doing what the physio said allows me to maintain, but not really improve. I'm going to ask for a more in-depth diagnosis than my phone consult during covid, and hopefully imaging to properly know what's going on.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 15 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Irezumi wrote:
The biggest issue I see now is that there is a lack of Nursing staff, anecdotally I speak to a lot less European nurses and HCA's now than I used to on wards


The staff shortage du jour is scientific officers. Radiologists are in shorter supply than nurses* and who wants to be a sleep physiologist, where's the glamour? Even pathologists have a glossier image because of forensic tv programmes.

*There's definitely a trend to import nurses at the moment.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 23:11 - 15 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't seem to have an awful lot wrong at present.

My eyes are a bit dicky Thinking
Probably a combination of old age and too much screen time.

No major breakages, no self-inflicted tumbles of any consequence.

Don't want to tempt fate: pain and lack of dignity will no doubt turn up of their own accord soon enough.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 08:03 - 16 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:


Also regarding 1st, 2nd and 3rd world these terms actually never had anything to do with economy or quality of life. 1st world was NATO alignment, 2nd world was Soviet bloc alignment and 3rd world was everyone else.


As with many terms and expressions, usage evolves.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 09:05 - 16 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Robby wrote:
Useful information there Reuben, ta.

Session coming up is the initial consult with a physio. I had a similar one when I first had trouble a couple of years ago, and I've been keeping active and keeping up with the stretches since. It just repeatedly flares up.

So two years of doing what the physio said allows me to maintain, but not really improve. I'm going to ask for a more in-depth diagnosis than my phone consult during covid, and hopefully imaging to properly know what's going on.


You may find exercises which concentrate on alignment and core muscles to be beneficial. Tai Chi and pilates spring to mind, Although I'd look for a pilates class based on the original physiotherapy principles with a qualified instructor rather than the "yummy mummy" type classes for people looking for a flat belly and a chat.

I'm a big proponant of tai chi though and it has the advantage of being done entirely standing, none of that rolling about on the floor farting carry-on. It's all centred around developing a grounded and aligned posture and movement and training your body to move sequentially so all your weight (and witrh more training, an opponents force) lands up being taken onto the ground from your feet up.

My mum has quite severe spinal arthritis and has gone from needing two sticks to walk on uneven surfaces to not needing a stick at all, all from doing a pretty basic form of "pensioners" tai chi classes which is closer to what I'd call Quigong exercises. There is a degree of woo-woo involved but I see that as a means to get your head around the type of movement you are looking to achieve.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:42 - 16 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Robby wrote:
Useful information there Reuben, ta.

Session coming up is the initial consult with a physio. I had a similar one when I first had trouble a couple of years ago, and I've been keeping active and keeping up with the stretches since. It just repeatedly flares up.

So two years of doing what the physio said allows me to maintain, but not really improve. I'm going to ask for a more in-depth diagnosis than my phone consult during covid, and hopefully imaging to properly know what's going on.

I followed the physio route all the way, saw multiple physios and even their 'top men'. None of them were particularly good, and in general it was a lot of effort for a slight improvement (maybe 10-20%), when I found cycling loosened up and strengthened my back with maybe a 30-40% improvement. It's just not being a lazy **** and keeping it up Razz
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:43 - 16 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Does anyone have any experience of chiropractors? Someone recommended one on here, but I heard from a physio (not one of the ones that I mentioned above) they deal with people who have been messed up by a chiropractor, and I was scared off a bit.

https://scontent-lcy1-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/261337887_2993386977546275_7025256245578219254_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=d4ZBHEJGqoAAX80x-gS&_nc_ht=scontent-lcy1-2.xx&oh=00_AT8YIKPE9AfvTSAwwuwSVijefEKYdqaZdcdefZ7oB8xIsQ&oe=63017A5B
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tatters
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 16 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
The NHS is a hell of a lot better than than Medicare Canadian health system which is like being back in the 1970,s. Plus private health care is banned in Canada, the communist fu*ktards claim private health care is "not fair" and activity try and block those who can afford it from going down into the USA for treatment.

Medications and ambulance fees are some of the worst. My work like most employers cover 80% of medications but not all meds are covered. Even with 80% off l still end up spending anywhere from around $20-100 per item.

The ambulance that picked me up at home for a 20 mins ride to the hospital when l had my CES cost me over $1k, and l had to force them to take me to the city hospital that l knew had a MRI as they didn't want to drive into the city. If they had taken me to the local rural hospital that had no scanning equipment l would of ended up paralyzed.
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Irezumi
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PostPosted: 17:18 - 16 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
Does anyone have any experience of chiropractors? Someone recommended one on here, but I heard from a physio (not one of the ones that I mentioned above) they deal with people who have been messed up by a chiropractor, and I was scared off a bit.

Never used a chiropractor, here's why:

They're not registered with the HCPC (nurses, physios, osteopaths etc are). They aren't recognised within healthcare.

They often jump straight to 'manipulation', there is no evidence that this does anything to aid with any injuries, ever (just think about the physics involved). It feels nice and that's about it, there is an argument this can then allow a patient to undertake activities to then get better.

They need patients to return to make money, they don't want to make you better too quickly. This is a downside of privatised healthcare in general. I want to see you once and never again regardless of how nice you are ideally, that hopefully means I've done my job (this rarely happens).

A lot of what they say is utter shite. Some versions of chiropractice (not sure if a word) believe they can measure the temperature either side of the vertebral column. This is obviously bullshit. There is a lot more bullshit within it.

I'm tired of getting patients who have got no better or even worse after spending hundreds if not thousands seeing a chiropractor.

I'm sure there are some good chiropractors out there that follow evidenced based healthcare, much as there are Dr's, nurses & physios etc. who don't. Just they seem a hell of a lot more prevalent within chiropractors.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 17:25 - 16 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Irezumi wrote:
I want to see you once and never again regardless of how nice you are ideally, that hopefully means I've done my job (this rarely happens).

I've found your insights on this thread very interesting - mind me asking what your job is?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 18:56 - 16 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Freddyfruitbat wrote:
Irezumi wrote:
I want to see you once and never again regardless of how nice you are ideally, that hopefully means I've done my job (this rarely happens).

I've found your insights on this thread very interesting - mind me asking what your job is?


He's a mortician. Cool
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recman
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PostPosted: 19:51 - 16 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bastard plantar fasciitis. Had it a few years ago in my right foot, now its the left foot's turn.
Woe is me.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:52 - 16 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Irezumi wrote:
They need patients to return to make money, they don't want to make you better too quickly. This is a downside of privatised healthcare in general. I want to see you once and never again regardless of how nice you are ideally, that hopefully means I've done my job (this rarely happens).

That can work both ways, my experience of the NHS is they say whatever to get you to go away, and it's about 'managing resources' rather than (it feels like) the best level of care or what's best for the patient.

For example a physio told me I might have a bulged disc (I think he used slipped but whatevs), then told me not to get a scan as I'll bankrupt the NHS.

I also know someone who died not that long ago, because the NHS didn't want to repair a leaky heart valve, then when they were subsequently diagnosed with kidney cancer (that took a while), they had trouble coming round from the biopsy and couldn't have the kidney op'.

P.S. insightful Thumbs Up for the bit about chiropractors

recman wrote:
Bastard plantar fasciitis. Had it a few years ago in my right foot, now its the left foot's turn.
Woe is me.

How did you get rid of your previous bout?
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Tarmacsurfer
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PostPosted: 23:53 - 16 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Robby wrote:
Last time I re-slipped the disc I was leaning at a slight angle to put a cup of tea down. 20 years ago I could hit the road at 50 and pick the bike up afterwards.


Throwing another vote into the ring for core strength.

I'm fairly sure the main reason I can still walk is due to a swiss ball (or gym ball, whatever they get called these days). While I most assuredly don't have a six pack my core is the key - if you have a damaged spine then that muscle alignment and core strength is key. Think of it as a built in support girdle.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 07:04 - 17 Aug 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is a definate trend with NHS orthopedic care to fix you in the cheapest way to get you back to the ability to function. Then tick the box, close the case. Rather than to fix you to as close as possible to normal.

So, a good example was with my wrist fracture. I could see it was nasty (although they weren't at all keen on letting me look at the x-rays. I had to get quite insistant, almost to the point of getting shouty to prevent them doing a panarthrodesis of my wrist (fuse the whole wrist). The registrar eventually and reluctantly got the consultant in who said it would be very fiddly but fixed it with crossed k-wires.

Net result, 25 years later I have a wrist I can move and do everything with with a 10% reduced range of movement. As opposed to having a wrist that would still be fixed but which I would be unable to move at all. I shudder to think how that would have affected both my work (I'm a surgeon) and my leisure activities (mostly canoeing and motorcycling). Even life experience such as doing the officer training corps when I was at Uni which I would have been medically ineligable for with a fused wrist joint.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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