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| Iraq |
| We must withdraw we've made a mistake |
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58% |
[ 17 ] |
| Nah its going well we've got the oil |
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41% |
[ 12 ] |
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| Total Votes : 29 |
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| Itchy |
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Itchy
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G
The Voice of Reason
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| craigie b |
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craigie b
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| Spiral |
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Spiral
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| colin1 |
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colin1
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| Mister James |
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Mister James
I want to believe!
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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 Posted: 19:42 - 15 Apr 2006  Post subject: |
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| Spiral wrote: | | craigie b wrote: | THat much is true, UK soldiers have been finding explosive devices which originate from Iran.... |
Yeah well the people in iraq have been finding explosive devices that originate from britain and america since the early 90's!
People trying to justify the occupation in iraq and the invasion of iran make me fucking sick they are the same people that got us into this shit and they are the minority who supported the war. |
People that rant and rave but fail to make a single coherent point to back up their arguments made me 'fucking sick' - so I'm glad I'm causing you a little digestive discomfort in return.
| Quote: |
America doesnt need good evidence to go to war. Fabricating flimsy evidence is all they really need.
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Colin, do everyone a favour and shut up.
How typical of you, and people like you, that when there is evidence of foul play, you gloss over it and say "oh well, they'd be taking action anyway".
| Quote: |
If they want to go to war, they will. Its not like anyone is going to come to Iran's aid against america.
America is the biggest kid in the playground so it can do whatever the fuck it wants, and then moan that no one likes it afterwards.
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Ahh, the envious petulance of the liberal muppet.
Thank your cotton socks that Iran isn't the biggest kid in the playground, because if it was you'd have to brush up on your arabic and find out which way east is.
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| craigie b |
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craigie b
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| Spiral |
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Spiral
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| colin1 |
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colin1
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| Itchy |
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Itchy
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| Mister James |
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Mister James
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| Posted: 18:54 - 16 Apr 2006 Post subject: |
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| COLINWALL wrote: | | Spiral wrote: | During the height of the troubles here in northern ireland americans openly supported seinfein/ira financially. You can double that figure for the people in the republic who supported the ira.
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I dont believe that it was govenrment policy to fund the IRA, it was just individuals in those countries that did it.
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Agreed.
| Quote: |
I believe that the Iranian government is funding insurgents in iraq, but unlike meddling irish americans, they have good reason to do so. Self defence from future aggression which is far more likely than Americas claims of Iraqi nuclear weapons. |
Is it actually good reason?
You claim that America has no right to invade countries, but Iran has the right to fight a guerilla campaign that is targeting and killing thousands of civilians, without declaring war?
Rubbish.
They may have reasons whose logic you understand, but that doesn't make them good ones.
| Quote: |
Mister james at least my points have some basis on reality, and not made up weapons of mass destruction.
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No, your points don't.
Ref. WMD's, before the war, I didn't speak to a single person who believed Saddam DIDN'T have them - the man himself spent years claiming that he did, and members of his regime have since claimed that they were flown out of the country.
WMD's were simply an attempt by Blair to find a more Labour-friendly reason for the war.
They were one of several good reasons to unseat-Saddam, and the lack of any being found is no excuse for you to write a load of unsubstantiated drivel.
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G
The Voice of Reason
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| colin1 |
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colin1
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| Spiral |
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Spiral
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| Posted: 19:59 - 16 Apr 2006 Post subject: |
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| COLINWALL wrote: | | Spiral wrote: | During the height of the troubles here in northern ireland americans openly supported seinfein/ira financially. You can double that figure for the people in the republic who supported the ira.
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I dont believe that it was government policy to fund the IRA, it was just individuals in those countries that did it.
I believe that the Iranian government is funding insurgents in iraq, but unlike meddling irish americans, they have good reason to do so. Self defence from future aggression which is far more likely than Americas claims of Iraqi nuclear weapons. |
That is my point, there is no proof its a lot of people going i think, if we had actual proof that iran was funding terrorists in iraq we would already be invading.
So why all the talk of invasion when there is no proof if anything the americans sound like hitler in 38 when he was fabricating proof that poland was covertly attacking the germans as an excuse to invade.
On the subject of weapons of mass destruction, How many ministers resigned over the iraq war as far as i know there was at least 3 resigned (John Denham,robin cook,Lord heath).
And that report on wmd's was bullshit, in fact it was full of so much bullshit that at one time they claimed iraq could launch an attack against britain in 45 mins.
But read for your selves this is from chapter 3 of the report that labour declared was truth
Chapter 3: The current position: 1998-2002
1. This chapter sets out what we know of saddamn's chemical, biological, nuclear and ballistic missile programmes, drawing on all the available evidence. While it takes account of the results from UN inspections and other publicly available information, it also draws heavily on the latest intelligence about Iraqi efforts to develop their programmes and capabilities since 1998. The main conclusions are that:
Iraq has a useable chemical and biological weapons capability, in breach of UNSCR 687, which has included recent production of chemical and biological agents;
saddamn continues to attach great importance to the possession of weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles, which he regards as being the basis for Iraq's regional power. He is determined to retain these capabilities;
Iraq can deliver chemical and biological agents using an extensive range of artillery shells, free-fall bombs, sprayers and ballistic missiles;
Iraq continues to work on developing nuclear weapons, in breach of its obligations under the Non-Proliferation Treaty, and in breach of UNSCR 687. Uranium has been sought from Africa that has no civil nuclear application in Iraq;
Iraq possesses extended-range versions of the SCUD ballistic missile in breach of UNSCR 687, which are capable of reaching Cyprus, Eastern Turkey, Tehran and Israel. It is also developing longer range ballistic missiles;
Iraq's current military planning specifically envisages the use of chemical and biological weapons;
Iraq's military forces are able to use chemical and biological weapons, with command, control and logistical arrangements in place. The Iraqi military are able to deploy these weapons within forty five minutes of a decision to do so;
Iraq has learnt lessons from previous UN weapons inspections and is already taking steps to conceal and disperse sensitive equipment and documentation in advance of the return of inspectors;
Iraq's chemical, biological, nuclear and ballistic missiles programmes are well-funded.
Looks very impressive doesn't it funny you'd have thought a country with this arsenal would have lasted more than a month before surrendering.
but have a look for your selfs just what happened and when,
https://www.thinkprogress.org/iraq-timeline
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| Mister James |
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Mister James
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| Posted: 10:20 - 17 Apr 2006 Post subject: |
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| COLINWALL wrote: | | Mister James wrote: |
You claim that America has no right to invade countries, but Iran has the right to fight a guerilla campaign that is targeting and killing thousands of civilians, without declaring war?
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I dont think in terms of rights.
I think in terms of what is more justifiable.
There is little doubt that amercia and Iraq will be a threat to Iran in the future, as America have threatened Iran.
I think it is perfectly justifable and reasonable to destabilise a country that has attacked you in the past and is controlled by a country making threats against you.
Invading countries for strategic reasons and wealth and resources is perfectly understandable but I dont think its morally justifiable, which is why America had the whole Iraq is evil slant. |
You really are a cretin, aren't you?
Not only are you morally retarded, your pathetic attempt at logic doesn't even stand up to the most casual of scrutinies.
Iraq was a threat to Iran as long as it was under the leadership of a man WHOSE REGIME HAS BEEN CRUSHED AND WHO IS IN PRISON!
Murdering innocent civilians to piss off the Yanks (that's all that it is - nothing to do with past threats to Iran) is totally wrong, unjustifiable, or whatever other mealy-mouthed phrase you want to use to describe it.
| Colinwall wrote: | I dont think..... |
Never were truer words spoken.
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| plugger147 |
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plugger147
World Chat Champion
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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| Posted: 00:34 - 20 Apr 2006 Post subject: |
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Tbh I think the iranians are playing poker. 
They have only just made power grade plutonium which is a very low grade, what they need for weapons is a very high grade. If they can bluff it out for a while and wind everybody up then they could get a few very good deals for their country and make a lot of money from it and as we have seen in iraq (sunni's/shite's)it would keep them safe from the other type's of muslims.
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| craigie b |
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craigie b
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| Posted: 21:21 - 20 Apr 2006 Post subject: |
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I nabbed the following from a JKD site I post on and I thought it was worth sharing as it really puts a huge question mark on most peoples opinions especially mine....
| Quote: | 1) When Bush took office the Iranian president was a democratically elected moderate. Yes he was often thwarted by the clerics, but he had liberalized the country to some degree. The average Iranian had FAR more freedom than the average Chinese. Yet we failed to engage him. As a result the radicals were able to make the argument that "it doesn't matter what we do, we're not going to get American investment." Oh, and before someone says "why are you just blaming Bush", Clinton failed to engage also.
2) When Clinton was president, the CIA reportedly gave Iran a nuclear bomb design. And before someone says I'm only blaming Clinton, why hasn't Bush held these particular CIA agents accountable? Also why isn't former CIA director George Tenet rotting in jail for treason? And of course Dick Cheney was lobbying against sanctions with Iran at the time and (possibly) conspiring to go around them. (https://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,12858,1678220,00.html)
3) There are no credible links between Iran and Al Qaeda. There are credible links, yes current credible links between Pakistan and Al Qaeda. Pakistan HAS a nuclear bomb. They've TESTED it! Pakistan also has missles that can reach Israel. And of course Pakistan can threaten it's democratic neighbor India. Pakistan has been at the heart of EVERY nuclear proliferation scandal in the 21st century. So why are we going ape over Iran and ignoring Pakistan?
(https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4249525.stm)
4) The MAIN effect of all of this fear mongering is that the price of oil has skyrocketted. Let's see. Who all has benifitted from that? Well the Iranians have. So have the American oil companies. (Bush and Cheney's buddies). So could there possibly be a profit motive on BOTH SIDES of this argument to hype it to death? (Litterally).
5) The SECONDARY effect of the fear mongering is that it is STRENGHTENING the hands of the very clerics that we CLAIM to be against. That and Bush's support of terrorism in Iraq. Remember that moderate president I mentioned in point #1? Well recently his comments are in https://www.iranmania.com/News/ArticleView/Default.asp?NewsCode=42051&NewsKind=Current%20Affairssolidarity[/ur] with the regime that replaced him on the issue of Iran's nuclear program and resitance to the U.S.
6) Am I the only one that noticed the fact that none of the entities listed in Bush's infamous "axis of evil" speech had anything to do with 9/11?
7) And we should never forget that the reason Iran is an Islamic republic is because the U.S. overthrew it's democratic pro western government.
https://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/vol48no2/article10.html
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 18 years, 49 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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