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Well said Jack Straw!

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king kong
Nearly there...



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: 21:34 - 08 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Posted: 20:34 - 08 Oct 2006 Post subject:



So who else in this thread is being PM'd by another certain member, who I have never even spoken to or insulted before, but who is alleging to be seeking out the racists on this forum and planning to "do something" about it?

Cos I know I am.

I rarely get unsolicited PM's, but this one is more or less accusing me not only of being racist, but also insinuating that jews are racist.


This is nothing about racism - not all muslims are of Arabic descent.

What suprises me though is why Jack Straw has mentioned this now, surley he has been holding his surgery for quite a few years now and I'm pretty sure that Blackburn has a large muslim community for quite some time now.
I wonder if the husbands of these women are actually aware that their women have some from of freedom of speech by seeing there local member of parliament, I thought they had no place in society, would'nt surprise me if they had their own door to walk through.
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Mister James
I want to believe!



Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: 22:13 - 08 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you'd read the story I posted, you'd know that the husbands were present on more than one occasion.
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Huambo81a
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Joined: 16 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 23:43 - 08 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
hellkat wrote:
So who else in this thread is being PM'd by another certain member, who I have never even spoken to or insulted before, but who is alleging to be seeking out the racists on this forum and planning to "do something" about it?

Cos I know I am.

I rarely get unsolicited PM's, but this one is more or less accusing me not only of being racist, but also insinuating that jews are racist.

Rolling Eyes


Ya, name and shame!

I think every culture is inherently racist.
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bazza
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 09 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
hellkat wrote:
also insinuating that jews are racist.


You could build another Severn bridge with the irony...
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Harold_Shand
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PostPosted: 16:34 - 09 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Name and shame! Very Happy
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 17:28 - 09 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Reuben wrote:
So when do some of you people plan to start putting your words into action?

Thought not. Laughing


If the people who plan such action actually spouted it about the place, there would be no detection work for the police, CIA, MI5, MI6, Interpol, Mossad et al.

How tiresome it would be to have unemployed plod underfoot all day. For heavens sakes, think about the social implications of that. They'd be 'ello-'ello-'ello-ing in all sorts of places where they weren't wanted.

As if they're not already doing so Rolling Eyes
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Clanger
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Joined: 27 May 2004
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PostPosted: 20:06 - 09 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
pwntifex wrote:
Shaun wrote:

Ooh yeah lets all start being pagan, then we can cast spells and magic the muslims away, that makes perfectly logical sense.

The term 'paganism' has nothing to do with 'magic' - it simply refers to the practice of following a polytheistic religion. Rolling Eyes


*shakes head in disbelief*
Some peeps just dont know their pagan history, and luckily for paganism there are some, like pwntifex who do...
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killa
Won't Shut Up



Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: 09:03 - 10 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jack Straw, I believe, has said this for most of the reasons mentioned by members in this thread, yeah, we got labour in to sort out the fucking towel heads in the first place, they’ve fucked that up. Now we have a real reason to hate them.

So Jack, the veils are weird and annoying, we all hate them, but what about the rest of it?
This bullshit is too little too late, I don’t work in a Post Office or retail outlet so I don’t have to deal with someone coming in the shop unrecognisable by me or CCTV, I can see that alone would piss me off and make me want to rip it off their head.
He said the veils could be making integration difficult, why does he think they wear them?
Probably for that reason, they don’t want to talk to you, you white western smelly beer drinking, pizza scoffing fuck tard.

I see countless amounts of this sort of shit on a daily basis now, Muslims have called for this, Muslims now say this. There are a large number of Japanese students in Cheltenham, as just one example, I know a couple who go in my local and they are very open and friendly, they speak English a majority of the time and one thing stands out more than anything. They are courteous and respectful, you can’t pick out all the individual aspects of their manner, you just notice, it’s hard to explain.
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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 11:00 - 10 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
NinjaBoy wrote:
To be honest, I think the fact they wear them is ridiculous. And here's why:

1) OPEN YOUR FUCKING EYES - If there really were gods with 8 arms that mildly resemble an elephant, I'm very sure they never lived, built the universe, or did whatever the fuck ANY religious god is said to have done. It's common sense that there's no god!



Are you referring to Ganesh the 4 armed elephant headed god of HINDUISM, absolutely nothing to do with Islam?

NinjaBoy wrote:

2) The reason they wear them is becuase their god says that they shouldn't 'show off' their bodies to anyone except their partner - fucks sake the age we live in is full of people cheating on partners and single parents, join the party!!


Its about tempting males outside the family and iirc wasn't dictated by 'their' God who incidently is the same God christians worship but by MEN trying to blame the ills of the world on the women.

NinjaBoy wrote:

3) They all look suspicious!! And because of the stereotypical view of terrorists, we can't trust anybody anymore


And you sound like an ill-educated little child so maybe we shouldn't make assumptions.

NinjaBoy wrote:

(Rant over SmileThumbs Up)


time to get an education then.

I agree it provides a barrier between muslim women and the world about them but this is their aim, its intended as a defence against the world. Disturbs me that the women put up with it to be honest.

So women have to be covered at all times (except in the home) or they are tempting men with their feminine wiles but its perfectly acceptable for the men to commit suicide (bombings) become a martyr and be taken to heaven where they are rewarded with deflowering virgins. Another religion that oppresses women yet allows the men to do as they wish. Very disturbing.

Pity really that we invaded Iraq where the muslim women didn't put up with this crap. It really was a beacon of hope in the islamic world.
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killa
Won't Shut Up



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PostPosted: 11:31 - 10 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
In a way im glad they wear them, don't like a bird with a tash.
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JonB
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PostPosted: 15:51 - 10 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Seems even Tony Blair to a certain extent agrees with Jack Straw, according to this article...

https://www.orange.co.uk/news/topstories/3041.htm?linkfrom=news_&link=box_left_pos_4_2_link_title&article=newssport
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map
Mr Calendar



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: 15:55 - 10 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
killa wrote:
...don't like a bird with a tash.
Then I'd suggest stop going into the transexual, cross-dressing gay bars Very Happy
...bet you know all the words and actions to YMCA now Wink
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Kris
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PostPosted: 10:53 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't agree with the majority of posters on this thread. In fact, I find a few of the comments quite alarming and pretty much akin to what I'd expect to hear down the local DSS office queue...

Shame, as I expected much better from a few of you.

Jack Straw's first comment, that he'd prefer it if Muslim women didn't wear veils when speaking to him, may seem harmless enough at first. Unfortunately he is supposed to be in a position where he understands the need for some of these women to wear them. Maybe he would feel better if they didn't wear one, but why? It's a nonsense remark, which is pretty thoughtless considering the demographic of his local community. You and I could refuse entry to our house, refuse to even talk to someone unless removing a veil. Unfortunately Jack Straw, in public office cannot. He has no business doing so.

His second comment, that veils are divisive is complete bollocks really. Divisive is the lot of you foaming at the mouth crying 'unfair, unfair' at veil wearing. Seriously, get a fucking grip. How much of a threat is a Muslim woman wearing a veil?

As for the balaclava comments, use your brains. Balaclavas associated with crime; veils associated with Muslim women. There is no defence.
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JonB
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kris wrote:

His second comment, that veils are divisive is complete bollocks really. Divisive is the lot of you foaming at the mouth crying 'unfair, unfair' at veil wearing. Seriously, get a fucking grip. How much of a threat is a Muslim woman wearing a veil?

Where have you been for the past 5 years?

It's not the "veil" that grates me. There is a lovely girl in my Italian sessions every week and she wears one, but only over her head, not covering her face. I know for a fact I could not have a decent conversation with her if she covered her face.
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Kris
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PostPosted: 11:15 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jon B wrote:

Where have you been for the past 5 years?

It's not the "veil" that grates me. There is a lovely girl in my Italian sessions every week and she wears one, but only over her head, not covering her face. I know for a fact I could not have a decent conversation with her if she covered her face.


The problem lies with you, not a veil wearing girl.

What is it you are so scared of?
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JonB
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PostPosted: 11:30 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kris wrote:


The problem lies with you, not a veil wearing girl.

What is it you are so scared of?

I'm not scared of anything, just require some common decency and respect to the country in which I live in. Also the requirement to converse with anybody freely without feeling intimidated, removed, unheard. It is true that you look into people's eyes when you communicate, but when 70-80% of communication is non verbal, which includes facial expressions. How are these Islamic women ever going to be able to stand up and be counted? The veils just make them a parody of the religion they choose to believe in.
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killa
Won't Shut Up



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PostPosted: 11:44 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
As the report says above, they don't need to wear it by their religion.

They probably wear it so they aren't counted, they dodge tax and TV licences. Wink
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Kris
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PostPosted: 12:24 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jon B wrote:

I'm not scared of anything, just require some common decency and respect to the country in which I live in. Also the requirement to converse with anybody freely without feeling intimidated, removed, unheard. It is true that you look into people's eyes when you communicate, but when 70-80% of communication is non verbal, which includes facial expressions. How are these Islamic women ever going to be able to stand up and be counted? The veils just make them a parody of the religion they choose to believe in.


Common decency. Now there's a phrase Thumbs Up

I'm really struggling to see your point. Do you want to dictate to people what to wear regardless of the fact it may be their own choice and because of religious faith? Are you suggesting that we become more like the countries others have condemned on this thread? I was under the impression that this country was a bloody good role model for a way of life with freedoms and civil rights. (although they are currently eroding as we speak).

So how often do you come across this communication problem with Muslim women/girls then? Daily? Weekly? Is it really an issue like you say?

I'd doubt it was a real headline worthy story but I'm of the opinion that it's the usual sensationilism and downright inflammatry remarks from the BBC that brought the issue on your radar screen. Not quite what every white person was thinking then.

Oh and 'your' country could be just as much theirs. Thought of that?

Very Happy
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 12:33 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Straw raised a valid point based on experiences in his largely-muslim constituency. He has not demanded that anyone remove their veils - but, like me, he would prefer it. He has correctly identified the veil as yet another factor in deteriorating relations between us and the muslim community, and has opened a debate on what can be done.

Quote:

Are you suggesting that we become more like the countries others have condemned on this thread?


To be honest, yes. We need some reciprocity here, because we are doing all the bending over and arse-presenting - for precious little gain.
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JonB
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kris wrote:

Common decency. Now there's a phrase Thumbs Up

I'm really struggling to see your point. Do you want to dictate to people what to wear regardless of the fact it may be their own choice and because of religious faith? Are you suggesting that we become more like the countries others have condemned on this thread? I was under the impression that this country was a bloody good role model for a way of life with freedoms and civil rights. (although they are currently eroding as we speak).

So how often do you come across this communication problem with Muslim women/girls then? Daily? Weekly? Is it really an issue like you say?

I'd doubt it was a real headline worthy story but I'm of the opinion that it's the usual sensationilism and downright inflammatry remarks from the BBC that brought the issue on your radar screen. Not quite what every white person was thinking then.

Oh and 'your' country could be just as much theirs. Thought of that?

Very Happy

I'd argue that covering your face and openly walking into a shop is kind of "Taking the pee" considering a British white man/woman could go in a shop with a balaclava and have the Police to them in less than 10 minutes. If an Islamic woman commits shoplifting/does a runner from the petrol station or even indeed God forbid commit a terrorist attack, how can we identify them? If we want to achieve equality then surely we can't have one rule for one and one for the other. That's what creates friction and I guess you would notice there is a bit of a catch 22 with this. If we take away their right to wear a veil, we are as bad as them. But this is not what the topic initially was about. This is about communication and I believe both communities would benefit if we were able to communicate freely.

I would never usually have the right to slag off Islamic woman for this as I lived in a rural Somerset town where the nearest Muslim community was nearly 50 miles away. However in the past 3 weeks I have been thrown into the chaos of City life in Coventry and there is a high density of Muslims here and a complete culture shock to me. I have to be careful what I say otherwise I suspect i'd probably get killed for being racist.

Also whilst sovereignty still exists in the world and the borders are still in place. This is more "my" country than it is theirs. Provided they are first generation immigrants. Smile
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Kris
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
killa wrote:
As the report says above, they don't need to wear it by their religion.


Yea, they could quite easily wear too-tight hipster jeans (so the fat stretches over the top - yum), Reebok classics, loads of fake gold and start screaming "Caaaahhhnt!" like some girls...

I'm guessing then they'd be okay? Razz
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zaknafien




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PostPosted: 12:46 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's no different from chav's with hoodies pulled up and scarfs across the face.

Try walking into a shop like that and see how far you get.
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Kris
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PostPosted: 12:48 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jon B wrote:

I'd argue that covering your face and openly walking into a shop is kind of "Taking the pee" considering a British white man/woman could go in a shop with a balaclava and have the Police to them in less than 10 minutes. If an Islamic woman commits shoplifting/does a runner from the petrol station or even indeed God forbid commit a terrorist attack, how can we identify them? If we want to achieve equality then surely we can't have one rule for one and one for the other. That's what creates friction and I guess you would notice there is a bit of a catch 22 with this. If we take away their right to wear a veil, we are as bad as them. But this is not what the topic initially was about. This is about communication and I believe both communities would benefit if we were able to communicate freely.

I would never usually have the right to slag off Islamic woman for this as I lived in a rural Somerset town where the nearest Muslim community was nearly 50 miles away. However in the past 3 weeks I have been thrown into the chaos of City life in Coventry and there is a high density of Muslims here and a complete culture shock to me. I have to be careful what I say otherwise I suspect i'd probably get killed for being racist.

Also whilst sovereignty still exists in the world and the borders are still in place. This is more "my" country than it is theirs. Provided they are first generation immigrants. Smile


{nicked from somewhere else but conveys a good point)
You love your balaclava, don´t you?

I had one that i used to wear as a hat folded up during a more dodgy period of my life.

and this is the thing, i said `dodgy´.

not wearing a 3hole balaclava has fuck all to do with `respect´, more due to the fact that if you were wearing one you´d get pulled and searched because the plod would see no reason to wear one in public except for doing something iffy and not wanting your identity known.

What you don´t seem to be able to grasp is that someone wearing a 3 hole balaclava appears threatening (this is due to them being used by muggers, terrorists, and paramilitary thugs. also military special forces use them not just to protect their identity, but also as a psychological tool) which ain´t supprising, but a woman in a veil or burka is as threatening as a box of kittens

think about it a bit more. it isn´t something that has great social impact apart from to the `it ain´t fair´brigade

Very Happy
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Kris
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Siggi wrote:

Yes, they would, they'd be british, and that counts for a lot...in...britain.


What's the difference if they're both born here?

One is white non-religious, one is dark skinned and Muslim. Both British though, correct?
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Kris
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PostPosted: 12:58 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Siggi wrote:


Being 'british' isn't a technicality at street level, it's about how you behave.


The 'culture' of modern Britain is not exclusively yours, it's mine as well. And I certainly have no problem with a small number of muslim women wearing veils.
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