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Forced to go cold turkey in prison

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Steve_k
Nova Slayer



Joined: 18 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 19:40 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
gixxersixx wrote:
Steve_k wrote:
Thats how it is now

not exactly, when chief executives and managing directors etc. are paid wildly excessive bonuses, and salaries instead of distributing them amongst the people who make the company money. If they are earning £3million a year then they should be paying more tax than someone who is earning £250,000 a year.


Know many people earning £3m a year?

The tax system is the same for us all we all pay the rate required by law if not the person is comiting a crime regardless of the amount you earn.
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 19:44 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Re: prisons Reply with quote
Siggi wrote:

You're either being paid very very well, for doing very very few hours, with a lovely working environment and a very good package, or you're a total fucking idiot. Laughing

So you think the only 'reasonable' way for the country to be run is for everyone 'being paid very very well, for doing very very few hours, with a lovely working environment and a very good package'?

I am not paid very well, and I work an average number of hours.
The 'package' I get isn't very good.

However I do get paid enough that I have plenty to spend on my leisure activities - not as much as I'd like, but that's another matter.
While I work at least 37.5hours a week, I see this as reasonable and I get 28 days a year off + bank holidays etc; meaning that for the 'time' my company pays me, I get over 10% of that back and still get paid for it.

Compared to other countries I'm at least not doing badly and compared to most I get a very comfortable life relative to the work I do.


No, I don't have a family, but then were I to choose to have a children I would be weighing up the cost in time and money before I decided to do so.

Yes there are people that get paid a lot more than, in some cases for doing less work.
However, I know that if I really put effort into it, I could also make more money. However my current state and level of advancement I am happy with - it offers me a good balance of work and pleasure.

Most of the people that do make a lot more money than me that I see do or have dedicated a lot of time and effort to their jobs; even if in some cases that job is arse-licking.


The £3mil director does pay more tax that the £250k director - as tax is paid as a percentage of the salary.
Were tax for such people to be put up even further I can see quite a lot deciding to look else where for jobs. Some see these people as scum; however the fact is these people are the people that make business work; if it was an 'easy' job to do, why aren't there lots of people out there offering to do it for 'only' £150k, say?

As far as company directors go - there is the option to not pay them so much. As companies are often mostly controlled by share holders who are often large financial corporations - they have to justify such things. The justification is that these people will produce profits in excess of the extra they are being paid.
If other people believe prove can do a better job and offer to take on the job for a lot less money, then I'm sure they would be employed.
Oddly enough, the sort of people that look for these jobs which require massive amounts of experience dedication are also the people that want lots of money to do them.
Yes there is some corruption in such cases; but I don't see a solution for that; there's people at all levels that will always want to get things the easy way.


Siggi;
Do tell, in your utopian world, how would you deal with crime.
Remembering we are talking 'real' people in the population - the sort of people that read tabloid newspapers and are horrified when they are told to be.
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 20:06 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Re: prisons Reply with quote
G wrote:

So you think the only 'reasonable' way for the country to be run is for everyone 'being paid very very well, for doing very very few hours, with a lovely working environment and a very good package'?

Siggi wrote:

You bet your fucking arse.

Much as this is a nice dream, I don't see it being in any way achievable for the foreseeable future, while there is a considerable amount of work that needs doing - until there's nanotech to do it for us, etc.


Quote:
But do tell us why you think 5% of the population should own 95% of the wealth, and do FUCK ALL, while the other 95% of the population own 5% of the wealth, and have to work their guts out and STILL not make enough to make ends meet.

Because the alternative is for the 5% of the population to bugger off and take their wealth with them.

It's perfectly possible to live a comfortable life in the UK on a relatively small salary providing you don't have big expectations and are sensible with your money.
As your expectations rise, so does the work you have to do.
Seems reasonable to me.

As I say, from my experience, the people that earn a massive amount of money have had to work very hard at some point.
Either that or they have money because the public has given it to them - ie celebrities.

Of course, there's those that have inherited money, but if you prevent people inheriting money you suddenly take away another reason for people to work.

Siggi;
Do tell, in your utopian world, how would you deal with crime.
Remembering we are talking 'real' people in the population - the sort of people that read tabloid newspapers and are horrified when they are told to be.

Last edited by G on 20:09 - 19 Nov 2006; edited 1 time in total
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Steve_k
Nova Slayer



Joined: 18 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 20:07 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Re: prisons Reply with quote
Siggi wrote:
G wrote:

So you think the only 'reasonable' way for the country to be run is for everyone 'being paid very very well, for doing very very few hours, with a lovely working environment and a very good package'?



You bet your fucking arse.

But do tell us why you think 5% of the population should own 95% of the wealth, and do FUCK ALL, while the other 95% of the population own 5% of the wealth, and have to work their guts out and STILL not make enough to make ends meet.



and.........................crime Razz
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Steve_k
Nova Slayer



Joined: 18 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
the answer to the crime problem is.............................
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 20:15 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Re: prisons Reply with quote
Siggi wrote:

Crime...the poor man's revolution.

On the whole subject of people committing crime as a protest against 'society'...

For a start, most of the people I've seen committing robbery do it because they're too lazy to do a 'real' job - they want easy money don't care about anyone else.
A few will try to justify it claiming they're stealing of the rich, but not may.
Similarly, I don't think you can claim that most violent (not theft related) crime and the like is done as a protest against the society we're in? "Yea, I beat up that bloke in the pub that looked at my girlfriend - but it's the governments fault for not giving me a cushy job, innit".


Siggi;
Do tell, in your utopian world, how would you deal with crime.
Remembering we are talking 'real' people in the population - the sort of people that read tabloid newspapers and are horrified when they are told to be.
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Steve_k
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 20:21 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
The wife has just rang me from work to say someone has broken in to a car in the car park at work and stolen a load of xmas presents, goverments fault for not banning xmas.

Just think the kids whos presents have been stolen can now go stealing from shops because they have been deprived.

Its the 5% rich people fault they did it Laughing
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Steve_k
Nova Slayer



Joined: 18 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 20:24 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
the siggy answer to the crime problem is.............................take all the money from the rich and give it to the criminals as compensation for not getting their drugs while in prison.

When they have spent it all the can alway go back to crime for a living.
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TL666
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 23 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Steve K, G, do you both read the Daily Mail?
You both really do need to learn a little bit about life. The crap dripping off your keyboards is unbelievable.

Siggi, your making a lot of sense. I agree with most of what your saying Thumbs Up
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 21:02 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
No; I do not read tabloid papers.
I occasionally buy a 'broadsheet'.

TL666 wrote:

Siggi, your making a lot of sense. I agree with most of what your saying Thumbs Up

Odd, the views that Siggi is putting forward seem to be to be the sort that would be cherished by tabloid paper-readers...

That it's all "their" fault, not the criminals - that we shouldn't be nasty to people that have commited crime; the poor darlings have human rights after, how dare the government be nasty to them!
Basically that it's easy to blame someone else, who ever isn't involved with the (reader) man on the the street.
That if only the government was different 'people' would be magically better people.

Care to pick out some points you've thought about that you feel are 'crap' and elaborate on why?

Personally, I've seen quite a bit of 'life' I'd say; the good and bad; the rich and poor; different cultures in 'native English' society as well as other societies.
It's from having seen many sides that I'm drawing my conclusions.
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TL666
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Joined: 23 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: 21:17 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Can't be arsed getting into a drawn out debate about why your wrong. To be honest you bore me with your drivel.
I think that your far too obstinate to take onboard any advice I could give you.
The sad part is that you really do believe what you write.
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fair doos, however as Siggi is oft' criticised for not replying to questions or defending his critics (apart from calling them rude names, of course Smile ) - I can't help but feel that such thoughts are held by those that haven't really thought about them much; but view the world in the way they would /like/ it to be.

Your choice.

I will generally try and defend my views - or more often not state my belief in a particular solution; because I don't have one; but question other people's belief in their solution which I believe to be wrong.

(Yes, I know that sounds a tad arsey, but <shrugs>, seems to be the night for insulting people.)
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TL666
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Joined: 23 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Confused
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Steve_k
Nova Slayer



Joined: 18 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 21:59 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Siggy you would make a good politician full to the top
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 22:06 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sorry, my mistake; I shouldn't have used the word 'seen', I've only seen the most mundane and petty of robberies being committed.
I have however known quite a few people that have and haven't got caught for robbery after doing it.
Including someone that was a close friend who did a year and a half inside for armed robbery amongst other offences.

Seeing that Siggi won't repeat himself (Laughing); can anyone point me to where he explains the following.
Quote:
I would deal with real criminals in such a way as to totally remove them from society, in one way or another. And believe me, I have a full system worked out.

I've had a look through and can't find the explanation that he insists is there.
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Mister James
I want to believe!



Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: 22:44 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
How worrying is it that me and the Sig-meister are agreeing so much?

I don't agree with his ideas that crime is justified by a cack government, but his insight into custodial environments is spot on, and I'm still waiting for those calling for tougher bird to let me know their start date at Pentonville or 'Scrubs. I especially like the way that Steve K casually dismisses attacks on 'Screws' as something that is to be expected and borne, rather than something to avoid.
____________________
>Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you...

Last edited by Mister James on 23:45 - 19 Nov 2006; edited 1 time in total
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gixxersixx
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Joined: 17 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: 23:04 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Steve_k wrote:
Know many people earning £3m a year?

The tax system is the same for us all we all pay the rate required by law if not the person is comiting a crime regardless of the amount you earn.


I was using that as an example as they will be both paying the same % rate, but the person who earns £3m should be paying more than the person earning £250k, and yes i know of quite a few people that earn in excess of £3m a year, and so would you if you worked for one of Londons high end casinos.
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Steve_k
Nova Slayer



Joined: 18 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 23:06 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
I was refering to the coment carrying a gun or knife and using it on the police when I said They do that now so no change there then.

The system does not work the criminals are laughing at the police courts and prisons, with gun crime up knife crime up police officers been murdered while carrying out their dutys where is it all heading?
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 23:14 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
gixxersixx wrote:

I was using that as an example as they will be both paying the same % rate, but the person who earns £3m should be paying more than the person earning £250k.

Why should they be paying more tax?
The person earning £3m is already paying around £1.5m in contributions to the government.

Now, don't get me wrong, it'd be good for me as I can't see I'll ever be earning that much. But I can't help but think if it was increased even more it would start to drive the people that are really pushed to exceed and run world-class businesses to other countries - which will, I suspect, be to the detriment of this country in the long run.

James:
I don't specifically agree with prisons being made harsher (though do think they should be run differently, but not sure what you can really do in the 'real world') - however; do you think prisons at the moment have the effect on 'criminals' that you want them to?
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Steve_k
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 23:20 - 19 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
gixxersixx wrote:
[
I was using that as an example as they will be both paying the same % rate, but the person who earns £3m should be paying more than the person earning £250k, and yes i know of quite a few people that earn in excess of £3m a year, and so would you if you worked for one of Londons high end casinos.


He will be he will be spending more so paying more in indirect taxation
He will be spending more in the casinos so keeping more people in work he can afford to loose more.

I worked for a man who employed 500 people he earned £250k, I thought he does nothing for his money he is just a figure head ripping of the workers then I worked it out each employee makes him £500 a year towards his wages or around £10 a week its not as much as you think for spending years building up a buisness creating jobs for 500 people all earning good money if they are prepared to work.
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