4x4's are getting muscled out of London

[ColdInsomnia]

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6146442.stm


So Ken has decided to greatly increase congestion charges for the gas guzzlers. I can't say that I oppose... The way I see it is 4x4's are nothing but a nuisance and a status symbol, as well as more dangerous than other cars (I can't back this up with statistics but I'm sure any of you that ride your bike around an urban area will have had many incidents with 4x4's).

Don't get me wrong, I know that some people need 4x4's, like farmers, and that's fine, but the average Mrs Blonde-Middle-Manager will have to pay through her nose to be driving her 1 mile / gallon war tank around.
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[feef]

[killa]

What about the Audi A8, the big Merc's the 720i beamer....

This is, in a way, complete bollox, but i'll go along with it, cuz i hate 4X4's. Especially big one in big cities......queer
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Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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[Dan 4RR]

Never really understood why people in London want a 4x4. Most of em never see a bit of mud in there lives

[TheDonUK]

I agree with the idea of banning 4x4's they are dangerous and polluting, and ugly and unnecesary. However if we start banning things like 4x4's or at least taxing them to death, how long is it till the public or red ken shifts their focus to something else... like bike accidents?

[Davo]

As much as I dislike 4x4's I fail to see how they cause more congestion (which was the original purpose of the congestion charge).

As TheDonUK says we should be against any form of pressure to move people out of certain vehicles because it'll be us soon.

[ColdInsomnia]

Well said Don, whilst I hate 4x4's, I certainly do not want to see them banned because that could have a domino effect and head in our direction, as if we don't have enough restrictions as it is!

I would be happy with say... another, seperate category test needed before you can drive a 4x4 on the road. It's a lot I know... but let's face it, most of them think they can afford it, so why not?

Driving a large 4x4 is completely different to say, a micra. It's akin to driving a moped one day and then going on to a Pan-European! Drivers of 4x4's need to be tested to make sure they're capable of handing such a large and powerful vehicle.
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Yamaha YB100 | Yamaha TZR125 | Yamaha XJ600S | Suzuki GSF600
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
John Lennon

[tokarev]

I like the 4 x 4 cars! They let you know when you are in a lovely posh area! Nice.

Also, if I was quite rich, then I would have one too.

[ColdInsomnia]

[flat spot]

If I lived in a place where the roads were abysmal, full of pot holes and traffic calming bumps I'd definitely go for a 4x4. They're pretty nifty away from the lights as well.

[lee8040]

i think its wrong if there going to ban them for being gas guzzlers they need to ban all these cars that are over 2l. all these people who have bmws that are 2.5 etc should be banned for using same amount of fuel

[Mister James]

Many people 'just can't see the appeal' of riding a bike, or a sportscar, or lots of other stuff that is perfectly legal and appeals to different sections of society.

I'd quite like a massive 4x4 despite no interest in offroading, because I like the look of them. I have no intentions of getting one, and no way to afford it, but that doesn't mean that in a bout of class envy I want them penalised.

If they are fuel in-efficient, they pay at the pump like the rest of us.

They cause no extra congestion - especially as most are tailgaters and drive about 6 inches away from your rear tyre, saving space on the road for other users to fill!

A huge majority of people who own these things can afford the extra hike anyway, and will carry on using them, proving that the whole deal is simply a revenue raising exercise above all else.

Any class-war jollity on Red Ken's part will soon fade when he realises that all he has done is price the vast majority of us out of the market for that type of desirable car, and raised their exclusivity even higher.
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[ColdInsomnia]

[Mister James]

[bazza]

Ken's plan is to get you proles off the roads, leaving them for the exclusive use of the rich, local government and MPs.

So STFU and take it up the jacksie like good little sheep.
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[Didge]

Boring old lefties like Ken, never give up do they.
Well done Ken, you've just shown everybody what a envious and bitter little man you are. (As if we didn't already know).

[WildGoose]

there are lots of very wealthy people living in london and the surrounding area, goes without saying, as you have to be in order to live there

so from 8 quid to 25 quid wont make a hint of difference to your average high flyer, and nothing will change

apart from the people that earn less being forced off the road, and the rich get to carry on using it, that is bollocks!

in my view, a lot of car driving in london, particularly commuting is uneccesary, there is more than adequate transport system through buses, cabs, and tubes to get you anywhere from the suburbs to anywhere central without too much hassle, for a lot of people its the fact they can afford to use the car instead, that stops them, so again the rich get to do as they please, its very much a snobbery

in my view, they need to start introducing some serious penalties, how about a straight forward ban on 4x4's or cars that supposedly cause high pollution? "you cant drive this car in the city, try it, and we'll take away your licence and take away your car" and see how that goes

the problem is not the vehicle, its the drivers, it always has been

congestion is caused, by people being unable to drive efficiently, waiting for are gap that is already big enough.. to get bigger because you dont have a clue where the corners of your massive 4x4 are, and you dont care either because you are in the middle of a mobile phone conference

stopping on red routes, clearways, and in the middle of yellow boxes

parking on double yellows, in commerical loading bays, and on zig zags, so drivers of lorries and vans who have a real reason to park have to block up half the road elsewhere in order to unload

its a mess, we need to start banning people and crushing cars for first offences, why bother with second chances when the problem is as bad as it is at the moment, you all know the highway code when you pass your test, a 60 quid fine is nothing to most people these days and certainly especially those who drive these vehicles!

proposal.. ban all non commercial vehicles and public transport from the congestion charging zone and work outwards as the zone expands

disregarding any public transport, you could cycle across the current zone in 30 mins, i see no excuse for anyone to take kids to school in a car in central london

extreme and biased view, but i dont care, a real solution needs to be effected, instead of just pricing everything into the hands of the rich
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[Kickstart]

Hi

The extra charge is for band G cars. Plenty of normal cars in that group. Includes the BMW 130i for example.

It is meant to be a congestion charge. A marginally larger vehicle is going to make stuff all difference when you remember the gaps needed. At least means that Ken will not have a leg to stand on claiming it isn't a tax.

Should something be done about London traffic? Possibly yes. First step would be to get rid of all the deliberate attempts to create congestion fostered onto London in order to justify the congestion charge. Sort out road work, phase traffic lights properly, open up pointless closed roads, insist on adequate parking facilities to stop people driving round to find a space, etc.

Support this and you are just ushering in more excuses for taxes. And bikes are an easy target. Limited number of users so an easy minority. Poor fuel consumption per passenger mile. Hideous tyre wear. Noisy. Lousy emissions. Lots of deaths and injuries.

All the best

Keith
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[lilredmachine]

Anything that is an affront to civil liberties and freedom (like for example being able to drive what you want) is not to be encouraged. Forcing everyone into smaller cars is going to make shit all difference to congestion, and people who have 4x4s and large cars are also already paying through the nose for them because of fuel tax, as Mister James correctly pointed out.

What politicians evidently believe is that by taxing the most well off people in the country (definetly the demographic of those with these types of car) they are going to change something. This is blatantly not true, people will simply pay more to keep them on the road. So we are left with the conclusion that they are simply making more money out of the soft target, the motorist.
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Bikes: too many, too much for one man to maintain anyway.

[Walloper]

Of course you require 4X4 and a brute of an engine to collect the Chardoney and Peeled shrimps from Tesco City for tea.
And traction aid et al.
Good ol' Ken.
I hate People in Chelsea Tractors.
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W-ireless A-rtificial L-ifeform L-imited to O-bservation P-eacekeeping and E-fficient R-epair

[Kickstart]

[lilredmachine]

[Retro-Man]

The new Free Lander 2 is one of the first products within the SUV market to have already hit EU level 4 emission targets which firstly are not due until 2012 and secondly makes it less of a gas guzzling congestion causing vehicle than the bloody enviro mentalists in their smoky old camper vans.


It annoys me how people automatically associate 4x4 with high emissions when in truth if road charges were based on emissions alone then most 4x4 product would not enter in to the upper brackets at all.

I thought it quite Ironic sitting round somebody's house last week whilst they harped on about being eco friendly whilst their 1200cc Malaysian crap put out 20% more Co2 than My UK built Free Lander and we were sat in front of the open fire (burning fossil fuel) so they cold help save the planet by not using their much more efficient central heating.




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[Zimbo]

Indeed, I recently bought a VW transporter van with a 2.5 litre V5 engine. I was delighted to learn that, despite being a fairly big vehicle with a big engine, because it's euro 4 compliant it qualifies for the lowest band of road tax, as if it were a 1 litre car

True 4x4s are completely unnecessary in town, and it's true that most never see mud, but there is another reason people buy them - towing capacity. If you have a boat or large caravan for instance you may well need a 4x4 to tow it.


Agree with Kickstarts comments - 4x4s do not contribute to higher congestion and therefore charging them at a higher rate of congestion charge is unjust.

[TheDonUK]

Its not all about emissions though, if a biker or child is hit by a 4x4 i would imagine more injury would result than something else.

Also 4x4's DO cause more congestion for bikers. Have you ever found yourself stopped when filtering because two 4x4 drivers are driving with fuckoff mirrors level?