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| craigie b |
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craigie b
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froggeh
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G
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| Mister James |
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Mister James
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| Kickstart |
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Kickstart
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| froggeh |
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froggeh
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 Posted: 09:26 - 24 Nov 2006  Post subject: |
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| Mister James wrote: | | Siggi wrote: | The reason house prices have shot up so outrageously is bloody obvious; there are at least a million new adults to house (immigrants). Suddenly the rental market is humming with state-funded lets and houses are being snapped up by landlords. And now they're getting the added bonus of native brits needing to rent too because they can't afford the inflated house prices.
Well done Labour, you've turned a nation of home owners into a nation of tenants. |
I agree 101% that mass immigration has affected the housing market - how can it not have done?! It isn't the only factor, but it is one that is constantly denied or ignored for political reasons. |
Of course, any population growth will have some effect on house prices....but here's some figures...
Population increase since 1971 = 7.7%
House prices increase since 1970ish ~ 400% (taking into account inflation)
https://www.whatprice.co.uk/graphics/real-house-prices.JPG
https://www.whatprice.co.uk/graphics/real-house-prices.JPG
The last 10 years has seen constant ecomomic growth, low inflation, and low interest rates.
The banks also haven't helped, slowly increasing the amount people can borrow compared to their wages. People mostly spend as much as they can afford.
The boom in prices has also fed itself, in the number of people who have been 'buying to let' - very often in the lower price houses, forcing prices up yet further.
I would advocate the banning of this practice, and all rentals should go back under local government control. Unchecked capitalism is the root cause, not immigration.
Put a stop to 'out of towners' buying second houses in sought after rural areas, again driving up prices for those who actually live there. If you want a second house, get planning permission, and build one, or buy in areas of deprivation (as if)
The population increase, whether by births, or immigration has had an effect certainly, but it is negligable. |
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| Mister James |
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Mister James
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| Posted: 10:38 - 24 Nov 2006 Post subject: |
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| froggeh wrote: |
Of course, any population growth will have some effect on house prices....but here's some figures...
Population increase since 1971 = 7.7%
House prices increase since 1970ish ~ 400% (taking into account inflation)
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Two thoughts on the above:
I'm willing to bet the population increase doesn't include the immigrant community as part of the population.
I'm also pretty sure that the relationship between housing prices and demand is not linear, so your population figures are irrelevant. As long as there is a demand, vendors can effectively charge what they want - that's a simple matter of economics.
I have already accepted that immigration is not the only cause of price-inflation, but it is an oft-ignored factor.
| Quote: |
I would advocate the banning of this practice, and all rentals should go back under local government control. Unchecked capitalism is the root cause, not immigration.
Put a stop to 'out of towners' buying second houses in sought after rural areas, again driving up prices for those who actually live there. If you want a second house, get planning permission, and build one, or buy in areas of deprivation (as if)
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I don't think more expensive government legislation banning things is a good idea. If they are going to make laws, they should be laws helping people do things, rather than stopping them.
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>Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you... |
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| craigie b |
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craigie b
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froggeh
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| craigie b |
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craigie b
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| froggeh |
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froggeh
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| Posted: 11:38 - 24 Nov 2006 Post subject: |
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| Siggi wrote: | | craigie b wrote: | On the original topic. My work mate was out last night with one of his mates, who is a copper. After a good few drinks the copper begins to explain various ways you may be able to beat the breathalyser. He then goes onto brag about how often he drives into worked pissed inthe mornings, from the night before, before going out to breathalyse people.
Immediately assuming a copper is an outstanding gentleman with the moral high ground over you is ridiculous. The only power they have over you is that which the legal system provides them with.
Now the copper in question, in my eyes, earns himself the title of pig because why should this cunt be given an authority over me to take my fingerprints at roadside when he can't even conduct himself in the manner becoming an authoritive person. Why should someone, who's only merit over me is that he joined the police force be granted a power to stop me and take my fingers prints, which for all I know could be stored permanently, or at least abused at some point in the future.
The government has a track record of fucking IT things up and to be frank I don;t feel the police are capable enough to be considered responsible with such powers. |
The above is a perfect example of why I have always maintained that police candidates should be subject to strict psychological screening.
Unfortunately, generally speaking, the average human being who seeks to become a policeman is pretty much from the bottom of the pile. The worst of us, given heinous powers over his fellow citizens. And any of them that try to rock the boat and turn the force into something decent are ruthlessly crushed. |
If The Lancashire or Gtr Manchester police had allowed under 21 year olds I would be a copper now  - I applied when I was 19, just after failing a course at a Biggin Hill (trying to get into the RAF)...
Then I became a programmer. Sheesh. |
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Ste
Not Work Safe
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Steve_k
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| Mister James |
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Mister James
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| Posted: 00:03 - 25 Nov 2006 Post subject: |
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| froggeh wrote: | | Quote: |
I'm willing to bet the population increase doesn't include the immigrant community as part of the population.
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It includes legal immigration and of course emmigration. Of course it cannot include thiose here illegally, but then they are hardly gonna have much effect house prices.
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:O
There are around a million illegal immigrants in the country - they aren't living on the streets or in tents, so how on God's green and luscious Earth are a million extra people living in houses not going to affect house prices?
| Quote: |
As for banning things, I just wonder what else we do, when a mate of mine recently had to pay over the odds for a 2-bed terrace, partly because there were other buyers after the house, including a landlord who just wanted to rent it out
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As I said, government schemes and legislation should enable needy people, not castrate others. Everyone's always out to tax/ban those with more cash than then, but then whine when they themselves fall under such things as Stamp Duty.
I can't afford a house myself, but I don't believe the solution is to penalise my parents because they bought and did-up a terraced house in Liverpool to provide accommodation for one of my brothers and his friend.
| Quote: |
And when someone who is born, and grows up in some small town in Cumbria, or wherever, and cannot afford to buy a house near his/her family and friends because some people can afford to buy 2 or 3 houses and live in them for a few weeks a year. What do you think should be done? |
The government should invest in schemes that assist that someone - and me, who lives in outer London and would need to get a mortgage at least 8 times my salary to buy the flat I am renting.
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>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you... |
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| froggeh |
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froggeh
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| Mister James |
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Mister James
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Posted: 01:04 - 25 Nov 2006  Post subject: |
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| froggeh wrote: |
1 million (possibly), in a population of 61 million
i million(possibly) that are not exactly challenging legit people for the purchase of houses...
I don't see how they can have any 'real effect'
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I fail to see why you believe the above! Why are the illegal immigrants not adding to number of houses required by the population? I'll break it down for you:
1) They all live in flats/houses/caravans...agreed?
2) If an illegal Albanian gent. or a crazy Congolese nutjob is living in a house/flat/caravan (whether renting or buying or provided by family/friends/etc) the chances are that it won't be available for me to buy - with it being occupied and all that.....agreed?
3) With less houses to be shared amongst those wanting them, demand grows and the price rises - as such, illegals living in houses/flats/caravans directly affects the selection of such available to me, and due to the paucity of choice, inflates the price required to purchase them.
| Quote: |
As I mentioned earlier, house prices are roughly 4x that of 36 years ago), taking into account inflation. The population even if you add an extra 1 million, is les than 10% more. Its plain and simple economics combined with unfettered capitalism that has brought us to the state we're in. Immigration/illegals may be a factor, but they are certainly not a major one. |
As I mentioned earlier, your application of economics is flawed. A 10% increase in population (and thus demand on housing) does not necessarily equate to only a 10% increase in house prices.
Increase in demand is not directly proportional to increase in price.
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Steve_k
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froggeh
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| Mister James |
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Mister James
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Posted: 01:14 - 25 Nov 2006  Post subject: |
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| Siggi wrote: |
The above is a perfect example of why I have always maintained that police candidates should be subject to strict psychological screening.
Unfortunately, generally speaking, the average human being who seeks to become a policeman is pretty much from the bottom of the pile. The worst of us, given heinous powers over his fellow citizens. And any of them that try to rock the boat and turn the force into something decent are ruthlessly crushed. |
I've been vaguely interested in a law enforcement career for years, so have followed developments in UK policing quite closely since I was a teenager.
While Siggi and I are seldom going to find common ground when it comes to the police, I agree that recruits require more testing to ensure their suitability for the job, rather than their ability to look good in a diversity poster. Unfortunately, the people who would decide the criteria are the bigwigs at the top, who have proved their utter unsuitability for anything, let alone protecting and serving the UK population.
Another factor that I believe has had a serious impact on the attitude and behaviour of the average constable is the massive recruitment campaigns of a few years ago, where the decent salary was touted as a reason to apply for the job. There were massive adverts on the Tube about it paying 28k in London, which resulted in a corresponding surge in people who didn't want to be coppers, they just wanted to earn 28k without needing qualifications.
I'm not dumb enough to think that every copper prior to the above was like Dixon of Dock Green, but I've no doubts at all that it has had an impact on the motivation and attitude in the squad room. In fairness to the police, similar attitudes are in evidence across the Public Sector, it's just more noticable with the 5-oh for the simple reason that you can't really ignore them!
So there we have it, my 2 cents on the topic, summed up as follows:
-Crap leadership with objectives that do not reflect the needs and desires of the taxpayer
-Large numbers of the Plod who aren't really interested in doing the job for it's own sake, and are just 'innit for da money'.
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>Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you... |
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| Mister James |
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Mister James
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| Posted: 21:18 - 25 Nov 2006 Post subject: |
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| froggeh wrote: | Of course it has some effect, but illegals as you say, live in caravans, flats, and generally 'cheap' housing
I live in a modest 4 bed detached. It has increased in value by 2.4 times in 6 and a bit years.
How is this anything to do withl illegal immigration?
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I was being sarcastic with the caravans, illegals live in the same type of housing as anyone else. They live in suburbs, urban centres, tenements, high-rises and detached mansions. You show the typical signs of misunderstanding about immigration, just as do the majority of the population. They aren't all poor little penniless refugees hiding under trains and in the back of lorries. We routinely search in weasels with carrier-bags full of cash, who probably live in nicer dwellings than most people on here do.
Anyway, you are still missing the point - or deliberately ignoring it.
There are a finite number of houses in this country.
There are lots of people wanting to buy them.
The price goes up.
Up to a million extra people arriving in the country in a fairly small space of time - I'd say around a decade, puts an immense pressure on the market.
I can't be arsed to continue repeating myself, it's possibly the simplest concept in the world.
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>Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you... |
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| izzi81 |
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izzi81
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Posted: 00:35 - 26 Nov 2006  Post subject: |
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I confess I've not read all of this post, just the first page and now I've jumped to the end.
I work as a trainee fingerprint officer in Strathclyde, so I've been hearing a bit about this fingerprint scanner (not loads though, as it's only England and Wales at the moment). It's been interesting reading people's opinions on fingerprints and the storing of fingerprints. As someone who looks at crime scene marks all day at work, I *wish* everyone's fingerprints were on a database! When you're looking at something from a crime where some poor old woman's had her house broken into and her savings stolen - or crimes much worse - and you search the suspects, and then the database, and you don't come up with anything, you'd be wishing the same. You'd be much closer to solving a lot of crime if there was a mandatory national fingerprint database.
I'm not entirely sure whay the problem is with fingerprints being on a database. It's pretty hard to frame someone with fingerprints. And if your fingerprints *were* found at a scene, and you were innocent, you'd probably be able to explain.
I object to everyone having access to my credit details, or my name and address, or who I vote for, etc. But my fingerprints? They can have them! And they should have everyone elses too! 
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| froggeh |
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froggeh
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| Posted: 09:06 - 26 Nov 2006 Post subject: |
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| Mister James wrote: |
I was being sarcastic with the caravans, illegals live in the same type of housing as anyone else. They live in suburbs, urban centres, tenements, high-rises and detached mansions. You show the typical signs of misunderstanding about immigration, just as do the majority of the population. They aren't all poor little penniless refugees hiding under trains and in the back of lorries. We routinely search in weasels with carrier-bags full of cash, who probably live in nicer dwellings than most people on here do.
Anyway, you are still missing the point - or deliberately ignoring it.
There are a finite number of houses in this country.
There are lots of people wanting to buy them.
The price goes up.
Up to a million extra people arriving in the country in a fairly small space of time - I'd say around a decade, puts an immense pressure on the market.
I can't be arsed to continue repeating myself, it's possibly the simplest concept in the world. |
All I am trying to say is, (and I really cant be arsed either), is that it is a small effect. It certainly is a factor, but it is by no means a major factor. |
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| zaknafien |
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zaknafien
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Posted: 09:29 - 26 Nov 2006  Post subject: |
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| Mister James |
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Mister James
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| Posted: 14:43 - 26 Nov 2006 Post subject: |
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| froggeh wrote: |
All I am trying to say is, (and I really cant be arsed either), is that it is a small effect. It certainly is a factor, but it is by no means a major factor. |
You are wrong.
| Quote: | Milan Khatri, chief economist at the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors, believes the key social factor behind the growth in property prices is the flood of immigration, particularly from eastern European countries.
“Population growth has been a big economic shock. The level of immigration has been vastly underestimated,” he says.
According to figures out this week from the Office of National Statistics, the UK population is growing by 500 people every day.
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https://www.ft.com/cms/s/faf88346-6b36-11db-bb4a-0000779e2340.html
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 17 years, 157 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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