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| v4forlife |
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v4forlife
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Joined: 31 Mar 2003
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 Posted: 07:33 - 22 Feb 2007  Post subject: trackday photography help |
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a mate of mine is going on a trackday at snett, and i decided that id make my way down there and take pictures. now ive never been to snetterton and ive never taken motorsport pictures. can anyone, silver, swaffs etc, give me any tips on both the shooting aspect, and the track, so i can get myself at a decent corner etc.
equipment is a 400D with a sigma 70-300mm apo dg, and i have got a monopod.
any help would be brill, cheers
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v4forlife
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| Posted: 17:36 - 22 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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so nobody has any tips at all, you all just push that little button and somehow they come out alright. wish i was that gifted, oh well, to other pastures.
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| Dom |
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Dom
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| Posted: 18:21 - 22 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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I would've thought the 300 lens would get you close enough that you could have a fair choice of places to shoot from. Whenever I'm taking pics of bikes I try and go for as low a shutter speed as possible to create a good sense of speed whilst still keeping the bike nice and crisp. How low depends entirely on how fast the part of the track you're shooting is.
Tbh I'd say that motorsport photography is more dependant on good kit than a lot of the other stuff out there. I think with a monopod and longish lens you should get some nice pics, just play around a little.
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| v4forlife |
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v4forlife
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| Posted: 19:07 - 22 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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nobody actually works at work, they just trawl the internet and ignore posts.
and i understand the panning technique, just wondered if anyone had some tips for the track, as ive never been to a trackday let alone snett.
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G
The Voice of Reason
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v4forlife
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| Posted: 19:24 - 22 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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yay, see that wasnt so hard, now was it. lol.
ignore the bitterness, its just on just about every site i visit, whenever i post on a thread, or make a new one, there it dies, i seem to have a curse of everyone ignoring me.
and everyone knows bastards get attention on the net.
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Silver
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| Posted: 19:51 - 22 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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| v4forlife wrote: | so nobody has any tips at all, you all just push that little button and somehow they come out alright. wish i was that gifted, oh well, to other pastures. |
Christ! Does nobody have patience these days? 
| Joe wrote: | Maybe, just maybe, they are at work. |
Indeed...
Now, rule number one: Under no circumstances use the "Sports" setting. Unless you like to be able to pick out every blade of grass and you like the bikes looking like they're parked up on their sides stands.
Shooting Mode: Use Shutter Priority (Tv setting). If you've never practiced (or are not proficient with) panning then don't go for too low a shutter speed, because all your shots will be blurred. The trick is to find your limitations and how low you can take the shutter speed whilst retaining a sharp subject. You won't do that in one day because you'll need to review your shots (on the PC), try different settings etc and practice. Loads of people on the 'net will say things like "shutters peed should be 1/60s" or some such bollocks but the truth is that there's no rule (and I've seen the same people posting pictures of blurred bikes, so what's the point?). I would suggest starting at around 1/640s, reviewing the shots and then bringing the speed down as you get more competent if the results are looking good. If you dive straight in at 1/200s and shoot at that speed all day you'll be pissed off if you get home and find that all your shots are crap. Something else to bear in mind is that a shot can look sharp as a pin on the camera's LCD... and then God awful when you put it on your monitor, so don't get too carried away.
Oh, if you are doing head-on shots (i.e. non-panning) then you'll need a faster shutter speed otherwise the shots will be blurred.
In this mode the aperture will be chosen for you by the camera.
ISO: This effects the sensitivity of the "film". Generally the higher the number, the more sensitive. And for sports, you need the speed. However, speed introduces noise. So what you actually want is the lowest number you can get away with - but still does the job. Since the 400D only goes up in full stops, I'll recommend ISO 400 as a setting that'd cover most bases (given that I can't see into the future for available light etc).
Focusing: Very important - change this to AI Servo. This way the camera will try and continually readjust the focus. If you put it on "One Shot" it'll focus once and then hold that point - the bike'll move and your shots will be out of focus...
That should be enough to get you going. One last thing, pan smoooothly with the bike - Practice!   |
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Silver
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v4forlife
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| Posted: 20:16 - 22 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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yea, i've only really shot still(ish) subjects, and skating, but always with a flash, so it freezes it all. i will prob end up using auto focus.
cheers for the tips guys, and the track positions G...and next time, be a little quicker with the responces guys...k?
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Kickstart
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| Posted: 20:47 - 22 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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Hi
Snetterton is not bad for shots. Best place is the right at the end of the pit straight. Easy to get at and you are pretty close to the track.
The outside just before the bomb hole is not bad as well. The Chicane is OK, but that is pretty much the limit without proper trackside access (which is difficult to get at MSV circuits).
A 300mm lense will be fine. End of the pit straight you do not need to go much over 100mm. Don't know how quick the autofocus on the Sigma 70-300 is.
Generally I would say use shutter priority. If I am playing real silly buggers I will go for about 1/50th, and throw away 90% of the shots. Generally on the slower corners I will start at about 1/160th, going up to 1/500th or higher for head on shots. Even on really fast sections while panning about 1/320th is about at high as I would go.
Only times I tend to use manual is when the light is odd and confusing the light meter. For example a low sun causing flashed reflections. Generally shutter priority is good, just use a bit of exposure compensation if needed.
Take plenty of CF cards.
I tend to stick at ISO200 unless I am really desperate. Noise does start getting noticeable as you go beyond that, and on a normal day their is sufficient light to use a reasonable apperture and shutter speed.
One thing to possibly try is to use a monopod in a belt pouch (I use a cheap case for a point and shoot camera). Can help steady things. I cannot get on with a monopod used normally for panned shots.
Never used flash on a track, and don't think I would want to. Might be able to get some interesting effects, but would distract the riders.
All the best
Keith
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v4forlife
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| Posted: 20:56 - 22 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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cheers kieth.
yea, ive got 3gb worth of memory cards, and 2 batteries, but am thinking about picking another 1gb card or so in the states. i shoot everything in RAW anyway, so i can adjust 1-2 stops either way, hence why i shoot in manual all the time. i just got used to it aswell.
should be a good day out, if not a tiring one.
belt pouch ey...hmm, my sigma case might work, i keep the lens in my backpack anyway.
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Silver
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| Posted: 21:04 - 22 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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Keith mentions the monopod thing and it seems quite a personal thing. Some people will try and shoot without, some shoot in a pouch, others straight into the ground. I've even seen a guy using a tripod...  Personally, for a small lens (weight wise) I don't use one.
Oh, and shooting in RAW will slow down the 400D quite a bit during motorsport. The buffer will drop from 27 frames (JPEG) to 10 too (which may, or may not be an issue - depending on if you "machine gun" your shots! )
As an aside; Keith, have you seen the MkIII announced today? I put off getting a MkII N since the very end of last season anticipating a replacement. Specs look very interesting...! |
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v4forlife
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| Posted: 21:13 - 22 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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i had a look at the specs a when they released the info, and i am drooling like mad...i had to save up for ages for my 400d though, and im happy with it.
and on the monopod, all of my previous lenses have been small and light, but this sigma feels so heavy in comparison, so i think ill stick to a monopod for the time being. need to get some daylight hours to play with it first...grr, i hate work:(
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Silver
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Kickstart
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| Posted: 22:18 - 22 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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| v4forlife wrote: | yea, ive got 3gb worth of memory cards, and 2 batteries, but am thinking about picking another 1gb card or so in the states. |
Depending on the day I will easily land up taking several thousand pictures, which eats through cards at a hideous rate. Used over 8gb in a morning shooting jpg (for a trackday photography company, need a decent number of every rider).
| v4forlife wrote: | belt pouch ey...hmm, my sigma case might work, i keep the lens in my backpack anyway. |
Tends only to be useful for heavy lenses (eg, my 1Dmk2n, plus a 1.4 teleconverter, plus a 120-300 Sigma lense weighs over 4kg). Think the camera case I use on my belt was under £5.
| Silver wrote: | As an aside; Keith, have you seen the MkIII announced today? I put off getting a MkII N since the very end of last season anticipating a replacement. Specs look very interesting...! |
Yep, seen it (ironically about 15 minutes after I rang up and paid the balance on the 1dmk2n, which I got on buy now pay later).
10fps is taking the mickey. The resolution increase is marginal, so that wouldn't bother me. However the improved autofocus and the sensor cleaning at very nice.
Official price seems to be US$4k, suspect that will be £3500 officially (although maybe the last 1dmk2n models will be somewhat cheaper), at least for a while. The 1Dmk2n was ~£3500 when first launched but dropped to down fairly rapidly to £3k. Only really dropped ~£300 in the past year.
All the best
Keith
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Silver
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Kickstart
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| Posted: 23:13 - 22 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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| Silver wrote: | 10fps will be like a machine gun! I've got about 9GB in CF cards - may need some more... |
Boy will you need some more. Although you can lob both CF and SD in there. Amazon are flogging cheap 1gb SD cards for £5.
| Silver wrote: | Other things (apart from the obvious) that interest me are the inclusion of the new processor (two of them in fact), faster memory writing, 3" screen, longer battery life (and lighter), higher shutter durability, improved metering etc. |
To be honest, without either using a dog slow CF card or deliberatly provoking it I have never filled the buffer on the 1D. Battery life is silly (will last a full day shooting without a problem, buying 2 spare batteries was probably excessive). Shutter durability is already silly (and not that expensive to replace anyway), but that and the screen are mildly tempting. To be honest the sensor cleaning is the thing that appeals most, with the improved autofocus a close 2nd.
If I was close to buying a new camera I would be very interested.
| Silver wrote: | They been sitting at just over £2k for at least six months. $4k equates to around the same price (going purely on exchange rates anway). |
I paid £2379 for mine just under a year ago (Jessops wanted about £300~£400 more, but had a price match advert in a magazine.........). Check the US prices on B&H and compare them to UK prices. It makes depressing reading (or quite nice if you fancy ordering from there).
All the best
Keith
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Silver
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| Posted: 23:24 - 22 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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| Kickstart wrote: | To be honest, without either using a dog slow CF card or deliberatly provoking it I have never filled the buffer on the 1D. Battery life is silly (will last a full day shooting without a problem, buying 2 spare batteries was probably excessive). |
I've never even filled the buffer on the 30D in anger, but it helps eradicate those few seconds after shooting where it continues writing to the CF card.
| Kickstart wrote: | Shutter durability is already silly (and not that expensive to replace anyway), but that and the screen are mildly tempting. To be honest the sensor cleaning is the thing that appeals most, with the improved autofocus a close 2nd. |
Not sure what it is on the MkII N. It's 300,000 on the MkIII. Mine's 100,000 and I worked out that I could clear that in maybe two years, so 300,000 is more than plenty...
The 30D is very bad for dust (and a lot worse than the 350D!), so that is an attraction. Autofocus is one reason for looking a 1D series cameras as a whole.
| Kickstart wrote: | If I was close to buying a new camera I would be very interested. |
I wasn't for a minute suggesting that anyone with a MkII N would upgrade, but coming from a 30D and given the choice it's got to be a clear winner. |
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Kickstart
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Silver
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Kickstart
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| Posted: 00:14 - 23 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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| Silver wrote: | Yep, I heard rumour of a 100-400mm f/4 L IS lens which would have been interesting. |
Could well be, but suspect it would make the 1D look cheap. Nikon do a 200-400 f4 which is ~£4k.
Mind you, I do not get on with my 100-400 f4.5~5.6.
| Kickstart wrote: | PS - which model of bag do you have? Would it carry a 1 series camera. |
| Silver wrote: | Got a Tamrac Expedition 7 which will hold my 30D (and grip) with Sigma 120-300mm attached. I can also get the Canon 70-200mm f2.8 in there as well as the 24-70mm f/2.8 and flash - so it's pretty big. I wouldn't want anything bigger! In fairness, it does everything needed and has never let any of the kit get wet in the rain either. |
Cheers. Want a bag that will carry the 1D, a couple of lenses and a tripod. That sounds like it will do it. Current bag is not really deep enough for a 1 series body or have any facility for a tripod.
All the best
Keith
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| v4forlife |
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v4forlife
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| Posted: 07:33 - 23 Feb 2007 Post subject: |
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just a side note, as you 2 have hi-jacked my thread, i have the lowepro minitrekker AW, and it swallows my mates EOS 5 with reletive ease, and its a brilliant bag to have on a bike, so comfy
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 19 years, 4 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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