Citizens

[WILDECELT]

Please be honest as to what you think, on a personel level i think we stopped becoming citizens a long time ago and have become nothing but cash machines to this current goverment.
in my scope i feel they are misleading us in many aspects , installing a sense of fear and guilt ie..(green issues global warming for example) and using this as a means in one aspect to tax us more,and to justify the hike in fuel consumpsion etc.. stealth taxes
For example when they brought into measure fines (last year i think ) for being caught in a yellow boxed area or jumping the lights etc... ( i live in London) a spokesman from transport for London on TV said that the projected earning from this latest charge would generate so much income to fund this and that ,but my gripe is that these bigwigs implicating these new rules had already estimating a income from these newly formed rules,and have already forward planned as to how to spend this so called projected income,but what happens if no one breaks these rules? so where do they get this income from ? IE expanding the congesting zone, to other areas of London and believe me sooner or later it will hit every major town or city in the UK , soon we will be taxed for everything via green issues IE.. from household waste to how many miles we travel a week ( in debate at the mo),and to how much energy we waste ( even though we pay for it ) etc... when will it end ?

[WILDECELT]

Damm i realise my poll opinion is set up wrong DUUUHHHH!!!

[cestrian]

Just like in Matrix, metaphorically speaking, we're in the 'system'.

Just thought, remember the old saying coined by young boys? 'If it moves F*&k it, if it doesn't move, F*&k it 'til it does". Well replace the word "F*&k" with the word "tax". Thats how I see our government.

Regards

[G]

What would you like your poll options to read?

Yes, we are treated purely as a way to generate revenue. However, one of the reasons they want to generate revenue is to please the people in other ways, so that they get voted in again.

There is a big argument about 'green' issues, however, if you look at it that at least some of them are real, then it is/can be a very serious problem which we /should/ be tackling one way or another.

I don't know if London is less congested, but I reckon if I ever actually have to go into London by car I'd prefer to pay out to travel in less congested streets than be stuck in gridlock for hours - theoretically, not suggesting that this is the result in practice.
It should be remembered that /generally/ these costs are for doing things we shouldn't be doing, but carry on doing anyway, because it's easier to spend the money than go to a bit more effort.

The proposed waste disposal charges are an ideal example - I see a lot of people complaining how ridiculous it is, but I don't see many people coming up with a real solution to in it for our rather crowded country.

[bazza]

There was a point - sometime in the last thirty years - that the government stopped representing the people and began managing them instead.

As everyone knows, management's sole function is to preserve itself at any cost...
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'98 Ducati 750SS, '08 Suzuki GSX650F ©2004-2014, Bazza's Harmless Banter

[Dan 4RR]

Everybody works for the government indirectly.
G - When congestion charges were first brought in, they cut down congestion by 30%. But last year they said it had only cut down congestion by 8%. If you follow me.
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Humans....the largest form of cancer the world has ever seen!
Speed Cameras - Putting goverment revenue before public safety!

[WILDECELT]

Replying to G's post the whole congestion thing in London is a farce prior to introducing the congestion charge i and many other people noticed that the London Assembly in their wisdom stared tampering with the traffic lights in the proposed areas ,IE..changing them so they stayed on red longer and once the charge was introduced they went back to normal giving the impression that the traffic was more free flowing.
The projected income from this charge has not met it's target and so what happen's they increase the charge and expand the zone in order to recoup their losse's.
I have a sneaky feeling that motorcyclists will soon have to start paying a reduced charge as well, seeing that the introduction of the congestion charge saw a massive hike in the number of motorcyclist's in central london ( mainly scooter riders) the problem with this also is that it's damm near impossible to find a motorcycle bay to park in between 9'am and 6pm and that effect's me as i live in the heart of the zone.
though this is mainly down to local councils and there allocation of bike bays throughout each borough ( and some councills are tinkering with the idea to start charging motorcyclist's.) the only backlash with all this is that people who have recently taken to riding bikes will think we'll if i have to pay i may as well take the car in as it's a lot safer and thus your back to square one again.
I remember years ago before we became walking cash machines you would every now and then see a traffic warden on the streets but now if you go to central London their is nearly one for every street and westminister and Camden council itself have them working to 12'oclock midnight, in my opinion it's all got very out of control.
As to green issues i'm all for them but the feeling i'm getting at the moment is that our goverment are using our current climate in regards to our green issues to bully us into a corner and to install a sense of guilt upon us, i would like to see a reduction of councill tax charges for people who recycle or go more green, rather than be punished for it we should be rewarded.

[G]

I'm not suggesting it wasn't a farce, but I am suggesting that the congestion is a problem that should be tackled.

Reduction in council taxes? Where would you like the cuts to be made?
Remembering of course that people that make too many cuts for things that voters like may well get voted out and replaced by someone that doesn't make cuts for things people who vote like.
More likely, an increase in council taxes for everyone bar those trying to be 'good' - which is actually about the same as charging extra for those that aren't good.

Personally, I think the way a lot of things work in this country is very wasteful of money. However, there's a hell of a lot of reasons why it does work like this - personally I think some of the 'tabloid' attitudes of many in this country are partly to blame.

[st3v3]

[Kickstart]

Hi

The government are meant to be our servants, but instead are trying to drag us where they want us to go. Doesn't help that we have an electoral system whereby a party which gets under a quarter of the available votes gets pretty much unlimited power.

While there are issues that need dealing with, we seem to have got into the groove of hammering one section of the community to fob off another. Too many minor pressure groups having too much power (for example, Transport 2000 have a hell of a lot of influence, but only have something like 2000 members.

There has been a destruction of any idea of community. Divide and conquer tactics. This has resulted in schemes such as the congestion charge where most of those who it affects have no voice to object to it.

Me? I live near the M6. The parallel M6 toll road that was proposed would have halved the distance between me and the motorway (which I can already hear clearly outside). To be honest I morally cannot bring myself to object to the extra motorway as better road links are needed (doesn't stop me thinking that they picked the worst possible solution to drum up objections and have an excuse to do nothing).

All the best

Keith
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[JonB]

[G]

[Dan 4RR]