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| cestrian |
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cestrian
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 Posted: 22:50 - 15 Mar 2007  Post subject: More 'scamera' news....Turning into a BNP thread |
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I was reading the news from the political party websites and came across this.....
https://www.bnp.org.uk/news_detail.php?newsId=1402
Apparently, a planned research project into the side-effects of speed cameras has been cancelled by the Department for Transport.
It seems that speed cameras may have had a negative effect on crash/death statistics and the government may prefer to keep that quiet.
I was particularly interested in point 8 on the list.
There is also another 10 Downing Street petition requesting the banning of speed cameras if you fancy signing it. 18,000+ signatures so far. https://petitions.pm.gov.uk/scrapcam
Last edited by cestrian on 18:38 - 18 Mar 2007; edited 1 time in total |
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h00dwink
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Posted: 00:44 - 16 Mar 2007  Post subject: |
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queue someone mentioning that it's on the BNP site. one of the only parties taking a different stance. yet rupert murdoch simply wont allow it in the media.
"The official BNP policy is that speed cameras in places other than documented accident black spots will be made outlawed, in order to prevent motorists being used as cash cows. Local authorities and highway agencies will be encouraged to engineer solutions to deal with accident black spots. "
RAYSITS!
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cestrian
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| Posted: 01:04 - 16 Mar 2007 Post subject: |
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"RAYSITS!" - h00dwink
Without prejudice.... I assume you mean racists.
Hey look, this is just information that someone may want to read. Take it or leave it.  |
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cestrian
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h00dwink
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| Posted: 12:13 - 16 Mar 2007 Post subject: |
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yea it was purposely put like that, going with the whole bnp thing sends people into a blind tabloid style rage.
i think you're right, they probably wouldn't wanna chuck away all the money if it's already set up and flowing in.
probably a change of stance on the punishment would be better.
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bazza
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h00dwink
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Mister James
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| Posted: 14:05 - 18 Mar 2007 Post subject: |
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The BNP have some 'beneficial pledges' because they recognise that they have no chance of gaining any form of power on a national level.
Their populist policies are simply there to bolster their support on the local stage, as something they can point to and say "If we were in power.......", counting on the innate naivety of their natural constituents to hide the fact that they would never be able to enact most of them.
Reading the BNP website reminds me of all the other minority-interest groups on the web who have an over-inflated opinion of their own importance and intellectual prowess - ironically many of them utterly opposed to everything that the BNP stands for.
The BNP's recent family-friendly image is nothing more than that, a calculated attempt to beguile more people and bolster support for a party that is racist and flawed.
| The BNP website wrote: |
Membership of the British National Party is open to those of British or kindred European ethnic descent. While we welcome contact and co-operation with nationalists and patriots of other races, and with the many non-whites who also oppose enforced multi-racialism, we ask them to respect our right to an organisation of our own, for our own, as we respect and applaud their measures to organise themselves in like fashion.
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While I am someone who often posits the idea of white-only groups as an explanation for why I am against the BPA or the MOBOs, I do not believe that any organisation that specifically excludes other races can ever be anything but divisive and unpleasant.
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bazza
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h00dwink
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| Posted: 17:46 - 18 Mar 2007 Post subject: Re: More 'scamera' news |
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| bazza wrote: | | h00dwink wrote: | the new labour/conservative/tory have some very benificial pledges in their manifest. |
"All this was inspired by the principle--which is quite true in itself--that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily, and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they are more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.
It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in tha art of lying.
These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes." Mein Kampf, 1925 |
like i said, depends on how you apply the spin to it.
that's to both yours and mister james' reply, it could really be said about any fledgeling group.
although as you say, there's very few seats they have, but the number has been rising over time which shows peoples lack of trust/faith with how things are now.
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cestrian
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Mister James
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| Posted: 18:59 - 18 Mar 2007 Post subject: |
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| cestrian wrote: | It would appear that the BNP is quite a hot topic as I get into a discussion about it much more often than speed cameras or taxation. I went to a neighbours for a glass of wine just last week and the first thing he mentioned was the BNP,
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If I went round to a neighbour's for a glass of wine, the first thing mentioned had better be the wine, or I'm walking out!
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He wasn't too sure about the resettlement plans/offers and so reserved judgement on that point.
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I find the idea odious in the extreme.
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What are your thoughts about the Immigration issue?
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It's probably the biggest crisis facing the UK at the current time, but no, I don't think the BNP have a clue how to handle it properly. I'm curious as to how they intend to enforce removals, when the delay in 90% of cases is the home country refusing to accept the detainee due to lack of documentation proving their nationality.
I did find this gem in their (poorly written) manifesto:
| Some BNP moron wrote: |
The compulsory National Service system discussed elsewhere in this Manifesto would begin at the age of 18 with a period of basic training in the army. This would include full training with the citizens' assault rifle. Conscientious objectors who refuse to undertake military service would be allocated other constructive work for the community, but would not receive the citizen's right to be armed, or the right to vote.
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Wow, they based their manifesto on Starship Troopers - how cute!
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Mister James
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Posted: 19:48 - 18 Mar 2007  Post subject: |
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For detained cases:
 Refused entry/asylum/continued residence in the UK.
Held during appeal process, which can go all the way to the Law Lords or the ECHR in extreme circumstances.
Often released on Temporary Admission or Bail during the above, or if new evidence comes to light, and then re-detained further down the line. Bearing in mind the limited detention bed-spaces (2500) and the cost of detention (£1200 per week) one can understand why.
UKIS attempt to secure emergency Travel Documents, as the detainee has typically lost or destroyed his own. Some countries are relatively helpful, but most drag their feet at least a little, and some like Jamaica and China have little or no interest in accepting any of their wayward nationals back. Such countries will delay all attempts to repatriate the detainee, by losing documents, avoiding calls, missing deadlines, asking for extra evidence, or just blankly refusing to accept proof of their nationality. I had a senior Triad 'official' on my wing last year, who had a Chinese ID card, but who they denied was Chinese because they did not want to accept a serious criminal back into the country - or even admit that he was their problem. As most Jamaican detainees tend to have serious criminal records, one can understand why their motherland does not want them back. This is the part that usually takes the most amount of time - and can be further delayed by a detainee who refuses to cooperate by providing family histories or accurate personal details.
Once the travel documents have been secured, the detainee is taken to the airport with other detainees by G4S, and placed on a normal civilian flight with no escorts. If he fights/shouts/screams/causes a disturbance or smears himself in shit, he will be taken off the plane and returned to detention.
The next removal attempt will be on an individual basis, with 3 escorts equipped with quick-cuffs taking the detainee to the airport in a car. Should he be considered a serious risk, he will be cuffed throughout the flight, and accompanied by 2 of the escorts.
Such Escorted Removals often fail due to the captain of the plane not being happy by the disturbance caused by the detainee. In these cases, UKIS will keep sending them back to the plane with escorts until the removal succeeds. One hesitates to think how much each failed Escorted RD's costs, when one considers the cost of the escorts, flight tickets, escorts flight tickets, escorts travel costs, etc.
Some countries are lucky enough to have their own Con-Air style flights allocated to their nationals. Usually it is just the Operation Aardvark flight to the eastern euro countries, but there are occasionally similar expeditions to Africa etc. This involves a convoy of coaches and MPVs driving around all of the detention centres, collecting detainees and taking them to a charter flight manned by DCO escorts. As there are no paying passengers, and plenty of trained muscle, there is no reason that the flight will be cancelled due to a bit of disruptive behaviour, so it was a much more organised and predictable affair.
One of the most frustrating things about the whole system is that individual Immigration Officers or Caseworkers can get so disheartened by a particularly unpleasant or disruptive individual that they release him on Temporary Admission, seemingly in the hope that he will disappear and not turn up to frustrate their resolution quotas again.
The moral of the story is, build more detention centres (triple the current number of bedspaces) and pass legislation to speed removals, (more charter flights - military if necessary) and the Immigration Service might start making headway against illegal immigrants.
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h00dwink
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| Posted: 22:31 - 18 Mar 2007 Post subject: |
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| Mister James wrote: | | cestrian wrote: | It would appear that the BNP is quite a hot topic as I get into a discussion about it much more often than speed cameras or taxation. I went to a neighbours for a glass of wine just last week and the first thing he mentioned was the BNP,
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If I went round to a neighbour's for a glass of wine, the first thing mentioned had better be the wine, or I'm walking out!
| Quote: |
He wasn't too sure about the resettlement plans/offers and so reserved judgement on that point.
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I find the idea odious in the extreme.
| Quote: |
What are your thoughts about the Immigration issue?
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It's probably the biggest crisis facing the UK at the current time, but no, I don't think the BNP have a clue how to handle it properly. I'm curious as to how they intend to enforce removals, when the delay in 90% of cases is the home country refusing to accept the detainee due to lack of documentation proving their nationality.
I did find this gem in their (poorly written) manifesto:
| Some BNP moron wrote: |
The compulsory National Service system discussed elsewhere in this Manifesto would begin at the age of 18 with a period of basic training in the army. This would include full training with the citizens' assault rifle. Conscientious objectors who refuse to undertake military service would be allocated other constructive work for the community, but would not receive the citizen's right to be armed, or the right to vote.
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Wow, they based their manifesto on Starship Troopers - how cute! |
that reads like an argument from the sun.
the last part, comparing part of the manifest to starship troopers was odd. seems to be a pretty pointless thing to try attacking.
you've found a mundane similarity to a book where (not the main point of the story) only the soldiers in it have the right to vote. in this instance, as in the book, they have the right to vote because they're willing to fight and die for their country (planet in the book). so someone who refuses to do national service on moral grounds loses their "right to vote".
quickly now, inform the author of the intellectual property theft...
so going on that logic, should you find any similarites from books published before any parties manifest was written and take pot shots at the similarities found?
you're getting really touchy about the BNP. or at least that's how it comes across. your idea as far as the immigration is concerned is good. but it's a general point that can be applied to any parties stance.
your others are just targeted digs about their tactics to gain support. which, once again only slightly differ in their ways in comparison to any other party. how dare they try to get the votes of a niche group of people.
it's not about having total domminance in the elections. they're proving the point that more and more people want decent change.
that the views people arent entirely concerned about aren't constant taxation of anything remotely global warming related, the protection of criminals rights over victims or other constant PC nonsense.
enough for now from me.
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Itchy
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| Posted: 22:51 - 18 Mar 2007 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Wow, they based their manifesto on Starship Troopers - how cute! |
not quite
in the Startship troopers universe the federation granted citizenship status for those who performed
government service, service did not mean military service, military service accounted for a small part of
what was termed government service.
The government had an obligation to find 'work' for somebody who requested the right to become
a citizen, I think I remember an example of a blind man being asked to count something
for his duration of the service. As long as this 'work' was done to a satisfactory standard and
for the specified service period.
As it would be unfair for those who were for instance disabled or conciencious objectors , it was
deemed as earning your citizenship status.
I also think it was implied that the government and voting system was not overly militaristic , due
to the immense casulities suffered by those who went into military service.
the book is hard to read though its virtually a monologue mouth peace of of anti communism (the
prime enemy at the time), though it did contain some interesting ideas.
the militarism which comes through in the book , is cus theres rather a large war going on, but
the book IS militaristc.
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Mister James
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| Posted: 23:13 - 18 Mar 2007 Post subject: |
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| h00dwink wrote: |
that reads like an argument from the sun.
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I stated (in order): A joke, my opinion, my opinion qualified by a question, and a sarcastic comment.
I wasn't away that my post was arguing for or against anything.
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the last part, comparing part of the manifest to starship troopers was odd. seems to be a pretty pointless thing to try attacking.
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Their manifesto is a statement of what they believe as a political part. It being badly written, poorly conceived and mostly gibberish says a lot about them - thus giving my comment a point.
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you've found a mundane similarity to a book where (not the main point of the story) only the soldiers in it have the right to vote. in this instance, as in the book, they have the right to vote because they're willing to fight and die for their country (planet in the book). so someone who refuses to do national service on moral grounds loses their "right to vote".
quickly now, inform the author of the intellectual property theft...
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My comment was a throwaway remark based on my belief that someone probably did actually conceive that policy while watching Starship Troopers for the totty. My lack of serious discussion of the 'policy' is due to the contempt for which I hold it in.
It's worth noting that I have served, and thus would receive a vote under the BNP government that will NEVER happen.
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so going on that logic, should you find any similarites from books published before any parties manifest was written and take pot shots at the similarities found?
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Perhaps if we were discussing another party, I might well be doing exactly that. I see plenty of references to 1984 in media discussions of new legislation.
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you're getting really touchy about the BNP. or at least that's how it comes across.
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I think they are an insidious bunch of racists who are attempting to diversify their support base in order to procure a more socially acceptable image. I occasionally browse their website and see nothing but amateur attempts to appear intelligent and mainstream.
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your idea as far as the immigration is concerned is good. but it's a general point that can be applied to any parties stance.
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Quite true, but no other party has made such a pledge in their manifesto, and no other party is currently the topic of this thread, rendering your point irrelevant.
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your others are just targeted digs about their tactics to gain support. which, once again only slightly differ in their ways in comparison to any other party. how dare they try to get the votes of a niche group of people.
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How dare they link patriotism and 'Britishness' with 'kicking out the darkies' and poorly written diatribes?
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it's not about having total domminance in the elections. they're proving the point that more and more people want decent change.
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They certainly do. They won't find it in the BNP.
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cestrian
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Mister James
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 17 years, 46 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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