Public opinions count. Not.

[owdamer]

Bill to pave way for road pricing

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6678915.stm

2 million people opposing it obviously doesn't mean diddly squat.

I dont know how the congestion problems should be tackled, but pricing the poorer folk isn't the answer, nor is it fair.

[Itchy]

Well what do you expect from a bunch of people who were communists in their university days? ,


note I do not vote Labour and will never do so.
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[G]

60million people probably also don't want to pay any tax.
Doesn't mean the government should abolish it.

I really don't like the idea of being constantly monitored, however nor do I like at the moment that I'm paying a lot more tax for my 5/6 road legal vehicles as a single individual than someone who does 20x the distance I do in a year.

Not, of course, that I expect that to chance.

[Itchy]

But it is recognised that tax has to be paid for the basics:

basic health
basic police
basic education

thats is,

this = a tax on jobs , I travel average 200 miles a week to get to work thus

£268 in tolls at the £1.34 mile level (motorways and innercity A roads there is NO other choice), I don't make this much in a week in pay, thus I'd think sack this and go on the dole , where I'd be given £60 a week rent paid , council tax free, and utilities paid for,

the tipping limit has become so incredibly high its barely worth working anymore if you make less than £14K, Nu Labour doesn't care though , ALL its voters are career dolists which this won't affect them one jot.

add in this road toll and ALL jobs paying less than 35K will be not worth taking on with the average being around 22k (with many lower due to super high income distortions) out of 33 million workers when like 15 million of them face up to this better off on the dole choice , they'd take the dole choice. with you get 25 milliom unemployed there will be serious trouble (there are already 10 million unemployed in the UK).

be interesting how much cost of living expenses would be come pay rise time , I'm not staying for anything less than 4500% pay increase. (at which would make inflation go insane and interest rates fly too).

there is something wrong with that, where the tipping point of work vs dole is so incredibly high.
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[owdamer]

I've no problems with paying my fair share of tax.
I do have a problem with a government that seems to want to tax every last penny out of me and seems to want to take away my freedom to travel.
I also have a problem with a government that imports a cheap workforce, who then post their money out of the country. That may mean that the employers can get the manpower for a pittance, but it doesn't help the local economy.
God knows what other plans they have for us. I worry, I really do.

[stinkwheel]

They still don't realise that they way to fairly tax vehicles both on the mileage they do and the fuel efficiency is to do away with the whole road tax system and the entire government department that administers it.

Put the tax on the fuel instead.

You drive a 6litre V8 range rover from Birmingham to London every day, you use more fuel, you pay more tax. You're a pensioner who drives his 850cc ford fiesta to the shops for a paper every Sunday, you use hardly any fuel, you pay less tax.

Has the added advantage that you don't need to hide from the DVLA computer, declare SORN or any such rubbish. You want to drive it, you have to put fuel in, you pay tax. Even if you're a Nigerian immigrant with no driving licence and a cloned registration.
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[owdamer]

[veeeffarr]

[Itchy]

Government = rapists?

Ie we say no , and have said no many many many many times in a serious non joking way, yet they
decide to arse rape us with such policies anyway.

Kind of fits in with Blair in 2006 when he dodged the is rape not a serious crime question (the British
crime survey does NOT record rape, infact it doesn't record a helluva lot of things I've personally
not reported at least 6 crimes this year alone (chain nicked, NTV vandalised, mirror nicked,
attempted murder guy pulling a knife at me , guy trying to drag me off the bike rock cobbed at
me head ) cus nothing will be done.
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[Rookie]

[bandit_engineer]

be prepaired for everything to rise in price so businesses can pass this on.

I can see why its being done but supposidly it will vary on the road, more for motorways cheaper for country lanes.

So all people will do is migrate to smaller roads that have never been designed to take the volumes that will use them, thus just moving the congestion.

What about the people who work around the country, like myself. I do 30k a year in a car and go where the work is. I work on high voltage electricty pylons.

Regards

John
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Current: 2007 GSXR 750 (Isle of Man)

[Itchy]

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

Gordan Brown all over really. He's going to be our prime minister for the next 2-3 years too. This country is going to the dogs where criminals and dossers are supposed, but the honest grafters get nothing.
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[owdamer]

[pobbly06]

[tsmith]

I agree with specifically taxing fuel guzzling vehicles, but a general tax on fuel may not be the way to go.

The main reason I ride a motorcycle is the fuel effeciency. My GPZ regularly returns an mpg in the 70s, and thats not going everywhere at 50mph either. I rack up around 15,000 miles a year though, just commuting to and from work. If fuel tax went up significantly I would be hit hard even though I own a fuel efficient vehicle. I can't relocate closer to where I work as the cost of housing in that area is very high.

Perhaps a tax could be brought in that only targets vehicles that get less than 30mpg?

[Shay HTFC]

I know this is not likely to have much support, but what ever happened to living close to where you work?

No wonder the UK has so many of these commuter towns that are like ghost towns and the inner cities are full of dole seekers.
People travel miles every day clogging up the roads and leaving the places where they live to become void of any business.
It doesn't bother me about the people who come down the M6 from Wednesbury or something into Birmingham, but those who drive for 3 hours to get to central London do my head in. Fair enough, I don't live or work there so I can't really comment, but it seems totally irrational to complain about getting road pricing charges, but live 100 miles from where you work.

Maybe we should be questioning the government why all the jobs crop up in central London leaving everywhere else a complete dive.
Even London is crap when you drive 5 mins out of the classy central area.

Seeing pictures of the M5 being packed every rush hour makes me lose any sort of sympathy for those who do the 2 hour commute.

Maybe I'm a naive northerner who tries to live close to where I work, but it seems sensible to me?
The UKs road system is over crowded and people commuting ridiculous distances is only supporting it!

[Kickstart]

Hi

While there might be plenty of merit on charging tax on fuel, we are already seriously screwed over on it and they do not dare raise it any further.

What they do want to do is spready the traffic out. Get people to use the roads at less busy times of day / less bust areas. Similar to how buses and trains charge nominal ticket costs outside the peak commuter times.

However to do this the proposal is the track cars. This will be hideously expensive, and the government want the same tax revenue so the road users will have to pay for this extra cost.

Added to which a tax on vehicle miles takes no account of fuel consumption, and the government is fully commited to charging for CO2 emissions. So reducing the costs of fuel to compensate for the direct road use charge would not be politically viable (as it would make it cheaper to run large engined cars, and more expensive for small engined cars).

Basically they are engineered a situation where there is a serious congestion problem, have talked themselves into a position where they only see congestion charging as a solution, and now cannot do anything right.

Real killer is that they are now basically bribing local authorities to introduce congestion charging "trials".

All the best

Keith
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[iooi]

[G]

[Kickstart]

[Itchy]

[G]

But are they moving to somewhere that house prices are cheaper so that in the long term it makes more sense for people to live close to work?

One of the definite plus points for my work is that it's about a mile's walk or 1.4miles drive, so even if I take the car I'm not adding to congestion/clogging up the roads etc.

[Itchy]

No , they are moving into footballer alley all the staff are from North Mancs Bolton and beyond , where the house prices are utterly insane , and there is a traffic junction that even on a bike is horrendous. to a business park specifically built , thus all staff have to commuite farther than before , and public transport compared to city centre is crap.
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[iooi]